Gene, I’ve used them for ruffed grouse. Worked just fine. Not sure I would use them on hardier birds. And they work just fine on the skeet range for me but I’m a very casual clays shooter.

And not that many of us do it all that often but they are great for introducing a new shooter to the concept of recoil. Particularly women. I have a couple light 12s and with this load, recoil is barely felt.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia