I didn't read Dr. Drew's links, but we are more interested in pattern percentages at different ranges with different chokes, than we are in the pattern diameter. So far, I think we have to go back to shooting 30" patterns and counting holes. Wow, haven't done that for a while. Drew's Field and Stream charts give us all we really need, without counting holes. Thanks, Drew. On a similar subject, I once had a bunch of 1 1/4 ounce lead fours loaded in AA compression formed hulls, ahead of heavy charges of Unique. I shot them at 40 yards out of a heavily choked Sterlingworth and was amazed at how thick the pattern was. I decided to try the same combination at 60 yards, and found that, even though there aren't a whole lot of shot in a load of 1 1/4 ounces of #4, a teal would have had a hard time getting through that pattern. I can't remember the percentages without looking at the pattern sheets, but they were over the top. I was rather amazed. I kept the pattern sheets and still have them thirty years later. Long story short, I sold the Sterly to a friend who shoots ducks, thinking he would put it to good use. He drilled out the chokes and gave the gun to his son to shoot clay targets. I guess we can't save them all.