This is a new post combining some stuff from two other lines.
-- I have been dating Reilly's in the 19th century.
-- I'm also interested in who paid for certain patent use numbers during that period since this might provide additional evidence on who built the guns. (For instance, I can't imagine that if Scott built a gun in the white for Reilly or whomever, he would put a patent use number on the gun....He'd have to pay himself for the patent...- oh I guess that's possible...but...).
Darryl commented previously on Westley-Richards patent use numbers including W-R guns built under license by other makers. But each company had it's own system apparently.
Here is an example of Reilly paying for a Perkes ejector system (for history: did Reilly pay for that patent - or did WC Scott pay for it or whomever the cognoscenti believes built the Reilly guns; i.e. if Reilly did not build the gun, then who paid for the patent?):
1) are records for 19th century patent use numbers still available from the companies who owned (or later bought) the patents, including who paid for them and dates they were bought?
2) If not..can at least the date the use number was sold be recreated?
3) Does anybody have any idea of the time lag between the sale of a 19th century patent use number...and it's actual appearance stamped on a gun? (One poster thinks some patent holders sold whole blocks of numbers to individual gun builders).
4) And how did this all actually work? Who bought the patent number (probably the gun maker with the name on the rib)? Who made the said patent action or extractor or fore-end or whatever? If the patent number were bought by say Reilly or Blanch...would they then pawn if off to the trade to recreate it?
This is an example of method. Here are Reilly's that mention
Purdey Patent 1104:
17393 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forward U-L, hammer gun.
Purdey Pat 1104, use #948 (CBL1's gun) (dated
1872)
17476 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, Hammer gun (Buffum)
(Purdey Pat 1104)(use# not mentioned) (
1872)
17534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, SxS shotgun. Pushforward underlever,
Purdy 1104 patent use # 1037.(
1872)
18523 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street & rue Scribe, Paris. Shotgun SxS 12bore; U-L, hammer gun,
Purdey patent 1104, use #2135(
1874)
20468 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun;
Purdey patent 1104 use #3463 (
1877)
There are four data points for 1104 use numbers bought by Reilly. The guns have been dated (see chart, logic and sanity checks) and I am especially confident in the accuracy of the dates of the guns during this period because of the number of guns and the "markers."
Purdey Pat 1104 was taken out on 01 May 1863 and presumably became public in May 1877. Here is the graph, based on those four data points, of the dates of Purdey use numbers....
if everyone who had a firmly dated gun of whatever brand/name with a patent use number on it, would post this (along with the date of the gun), the graph could be refined and guns could be confidently dated by the patent use numbers:
If someone in UK could mobilize GUNSTAR, GUNTRADER, and the major auction houses to simply look at the guns and record the data....a lot of this UK gun history could be recreated. (maybe it's redundant...perhaps records exist but as I said on the Reilly line, Purdey can't respond on who paid what and when for Patent 1104 - the records are literally locked up).
I will be posting several other graphs based on my database of Reilly guns and the patent use numbers on them. Reilly records are all I have and those are only recreated from years of investigation. Others must have a lot more...Donald Dallas certainly does. And some company records must still be extant (I'm thinking about Henry rifling patent numbers). If so please post where this info can be found - I'll follow-up. Many thanks. Merci
This is UK gun history.
