Jeff, MuttPak and I hit the woods early today and finished by 10 a.m. Abby and Willa on point after we finished shooting. Once again we couldn't get out of the woods without finding birds. All told we had 25 flushes including wild flushes without a dog being near the birds. Jeff's gun is a Spanish .410 imported by Jana of Denver. Probably a Loyola. My gun is the Ithaca SKB 100 20 ga.