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1847 - 57 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series numbers

I’d like to repost some recent conclusions on the Reilly SN chronology in one place for the record.

First to reiterate the background.

— Reilly (JC and EM) numbered about 35,600 guns (minus about a 5000 gap in 1847 + about another 1,000 number by JC after 1847 as detailed below...i.e. 30,000 more or less) between the beginning of his business as a gun builder in the 1820’s until the business dwindled away in the run-up to WWI.

— We don’t know when he made “number 1”. However, one can speculate that this was in the late 1820’s. He was a silver plateworker/engraver and likely engraved guns to start off with. London Times 5 Jan 1831 reported a theft at Reilly’s shop and identified him as “gunmaker and silversmith.” The first ads in London papers for Reilly guns, new and used, began appearing in 1834.

— His first store (1816?-1835) was at 12 Middle Row, Holborn. Believe that the address on the ribs of his guns while at this shop included the phrase “Holborn Bars.” The earliest Reilly long gun I’ve found is SN 162. There are also Terry Buffum’s dueling pistols SN 176 which look to be in the main-stream Reilly SN chronology. Below is a drawing of the building which stuck out into the street where his 12 Middle Row was located. It was demolished in the 1870’s.



— In August 1835 Reilly moved from 12 Middle Row, Holborn to 315 High Holborn. He was there for 17 years. EM at the age of 24 years became a partner in 1840. The first number found with High Holborn on the rib of a long gun is 1174; there is a pistol with “High Holborn” on the rib SN 1024 which may fall in the main Reilly SN chronology. The last gun with High Holborn on the rib is 3329. The guns from this period had the name “Reilly,” “J.C. Reilly,” or “Joseph Charles Reilly.”

— In March 1847 Reillys moved to 502 New Oxford Street where the store remained for 50+ years. The first gun with this address is SN 8463. A history of Reilly postulated that upon the move to 502 New Oxford St., the SN chronology was bumped up to 8,400 and begun anew and ascended with unbroken regularity up to 35,600 +. It could be logically said that the Reilly’s did this in round numbers, 5,000 perhaps, meaning their last gun at High Holborn would have been 3,400 or thereabouts, confirming the SN of the last gun from High Holborn above.

The evidence for the renumbering of Reilly’s beginning at 8,400 in 1847 is overwhelming: Case label from 502 Oxford Street, gun SN 8463. Note “removed from High Holborn” (moved from High Holborn) still on label.



Similar label found on an 1847 air-cane.



Now, however, three SN’s in the 7,900 series have been discovered, all with an address 502 New Oxford Street, and “J.C. Reilly” on the ribs….two long guns and one air cane. These are posted below. The logical conclusion is that in 1847, when the firm moved to New Oxford St, Edward Michael, then 31 years old and soon to be author of a widely disseminated pamphlet on air cane guns, took over the management of the family firm; it kept its name “J.C. Reilly” for awhile; but soon used just “Reilly” on the ribs of its guns. Then in late 1858 the firm began using E.M Reilly marking the end of the transition from JC to EM.

The tentative conclusion on the numbering problem is this:

— Upon the move to 502 New Oxford Street, EM Reilly began numbering long guns beginning with 8400 and using the name “Reilly” on the rib (while retaining for awhile the JC Reilly mark on the case labels.)

— But, it’s also likely that J.C. Reilly, the old man, kept a batch of serial numbers for himself, perhaps to use with long standing customers and that these serial numbers began at 7,900. If this were the case he only made about 800 more guns before he retired entirely and moved to the countryside in the late 1850’s. He died in 1864. Here are the three guns/canes with numbers in the 7,900 series.

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: Ł700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0

7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99

Label is from the 1858-55 time period



7869
J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London. Terry Buffum gun bought by SXS40(HWK). I'd really like to see the photos of the barrel flats etc. It's an important gun!

edit: Amazing photos posted here:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498105#Post498105

Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 12:32 PM.
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