Thanks Ted...wasn't sure what "Pyroxillees" meant (smokeless?) and couldn't see the proof mark. So "PT"...post 1900 because of the powder; pre 1912 because of the chamber in cm. Pretty close to what the seller was advertising.

Edit, ran across this site on the manufrance Ideal:
http://www.gournetusa.com/ideal.htm

It dates an Ideal SN 21934 to 1903 and states that Manufrance was making 1500-2000 Ideal's a year. That would date the test gun above, SN 19416 to circa 1901, shortly after PT was introduced in St. Etienne.

The barrels came in different grades of Damascus or steel, stamped for the last one "ACIER HERCULE" followed by one to five pair of branches or palm determining the quality. If the Damascus were assembled with copper, the new steel was assembled with tin to keep lower temperature. Chopper lump, the technique used to assemble the locking lugs (dovetailed), are an integral part of the barrels. Chopper lump construction is believed to be stronger. The two lugs appear under the action and the model is stamped on the rear one. Here a "No 3R". The lowest grade is No 0. In 1187 were offered models 0 to 8. The letter R means that the barrels are compatible with smokeless powder and appeared in 1897. No 3R appeared in 1898. The barrels are stamped PS with a crown, a Saint-Etienne standard smokeless proof starting in 1901. There is on the barrels flat some indication of loading at proof and at regular use. Those barrels should have been proofed at 12,090 psi. The caliber available went from gauge 8,10,12,14,16,20,24,12mm and express caliber 500,450.375.303 british,405WCF,german 8x57, 600 Winchester and of course the 8 mm Label. The gun we have here is a 12 gauge chambered in 65 mm (very closed to 2 and half inch. Longer chambers, a 70 mm, were only available on a pigeon gun named "Perfection". It is a hercule steel 2 palms bored at 18.4 mm, 65 cm or 2 1/2 half inches. The rib is hollow, a typical feature of the Hexagone, they call it "canon plume" or feather barrel, and it weight XXXX. ..... Between the firing pin holes is stamped the serial number, 21934, year 1903. The average annual production those was 1500 to 2000 Ideal models.



Last edited by Argo44; 08/18/17 08:27 PM.
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