Dr. Bob, we do know that Dan Lefever sold off a controlling interest in his company to the Durstons and Howletts shortly after he incorporated the Lefever Arms Co. This was shortly after the Panic of 1893, and U.S. unemployment remained above 10% for over 5 years. There were several other economic contractions in the early 20th century which of course led to the creation of the Fed. The Panic of 1907 is notable as the stock market fell 50% in less than one year. 1907 also coincides with the end of the I grade Lefever gun. Hard times could well explain taking on investors or moving into other product lines like bicycle chains for Dan Lefever or automotive gears for the Durstons.

If we look at the serial number of the I grade in this thread, I'd say it's possible this might be one of the earliest prototype I grade guns. I grade would be the next logical progression downward in grade from the H, and a switch to cheaper fluid steel barrels to produce an even cheaper gun would be expected. That's why I questioned if this gun had cocking indicators and the LAC buttplate, and if it really had fluid steel tubes. I should have also asked if it has a semi-pistol grip stock. I've read that the Durston's insistence on producing lower grade guns to compete with cheap Belgian imports, the I and DS grades, may have hastened Dan's departure from his own company. The serial number of this gun would fit into that 1901 timeline.

I wonder what source you have for saying that Ithaca kept the sideplate production in Syracuse from 1916-1919? Elliot's books have the move happening immediately, and I've also read that the move was more gradual, but that production was in fact moved to Ithaca, N.Y. Either way, I still have serious reservations about the number of guns which are attributed to Ithaca.

If production did remain in Syracuse, you'd think most, if not all of the original workforce would have remained, and there would be little or no differences in the guns. If and when production and machinery was moved to Ithaca, it's hard to believe that production levels would have remained constant or even increased during such a transition. Also, would Ithaca really have flooded the market with a gun that was in direct competition with their own flagship Flues model double?

I'm also curious about the features which you say are consistant with Ithaca assembled guns, and how they differ from guns built under Durston or Lefever/Durston management. And I wonder if you have any explanation for the oft repeated statement that up to 1/3 of Lefevers were built out of sequence. From what I've seen of the serial number data that was being collected, there weren't enough small details being provided to make a definitive statement. It seems that new features and innovations were being put into guns and sold before patents were actually granted, and this could sometimes make accurate dating almost impossible without the actual records or invoices.

Miller, I'm assuming you are referring to G grades with the sear adjusters which must be accessed by removing the sideplate. I should have been more specific. I was referring to the external sear adjusting screw which was not supposed to be found on guns lower than E grade. I have that type on a GE and an FE, and the FE barrels are stamped with an E. Both of these are in the 40k-50k serial number range. I've seen several similar up-grades, especially with barrels, but have never seen an obvious down-grade. But I should know better than to say never when it comes to a Lefever.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.