Raimey, your conclusion about the readership of these Lindner threads is incorrect. When Owleye was participating, I started printing these threads, hoping that I could be there when some of these mysteries were solved. I haven't been as diligent at the "print" button since Ken took over the database because I assumed he would publish more than he has. Don't bury all this research in emails, please. I didn't participate in the research done by Ken and others at the Vintagers, but I did stand with my hands in my pockets and my ears open while those more versed than I discussed what we are discussing today. Please stay on this forum and don't go to the email function to discuss this interesting stuff. Bill Murphy