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Argo44 Offline OP
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In Chapter IV, 23, - Origin of the UK center break gun - Hodges and Lang: the following has been added and Stephan has done ground breaking research:

"This is not a detailed recounting of how Lefaucheaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood. (This is according to widely accepted gun-history legend; see below re Stephen Nash's rewriting of this narrative)."
.
**Note: Stephen Nash, a pin-fire expert, has published an excellent and erudite examination of the British adaption of the French breech-loading concept. He has postulated credibly, based on analysis of existing guns and gun sketches, that Hodges and Lang adopted elements of Beringer's center break concepts in their gun, vice those of Lefaucheaux.
*23m
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/lever-over-guard-origins

Last edited by Argo44; 01/13/24 12:27 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Reilly's use of Whitworth steel barrels has been well documented in the History Chapter XI, 76 - first advertisements (Jan 82), first guns (Dec 81), grain sheaf trademark, etc. But this gun continues to haunt. If it is steel. . .Reilly was light years ahead of the gun industry. Added to the history:

Text:

There is an 1876 Reilly SxS rifle that appears to have steel barrels, but may be blued Damascus, the advertisement gun description being minimal; If these are in fact original steel barrels they pre-date Purdey's use of Whitworth steel by 4 years:

. . . . .SN 19953 (1876): - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-action lock. 28”*76c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 01/03/24 12:11 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Added title page to Reilly history on p.94 (Still haven't gotten the hang of Yahoo editing software - New Year's resolution to take a course):
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 01/08/24 10:37 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Bedfordshire Archives has sent the inventory of JC Reilly's home upon his death. Here-in lies an enigma.
-- Bedfordshire death certificate for JC Reilly is for 11 January 1864. See below.
-- However, the contents of the farm were sold at auction on 23 April 1866 and the list of goods includes two guns SN 13921 and 13927, both 12 bore SxS Jones U-L shotguns, which weren't numbered until late 1865. The auction seems to imply that JC had died in March-April 1866.

Did JC manage to pass away twice?

I'm attaching the death certificate and the home inventory of the guns only. 5 guns are serial numbered and have been added to the list on p.57. EM Reilly inherited the farm. Perhaps he or a tenant used it then disposed of it in April 1866?

Interesting to see that water beds existed in the 1860's:

JC Reilly Death Certificate:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

EM Really inherited the farm:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

April 1866 inventory of the farm:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 03/11/24 01:26 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Why keep records? History. Diggory sent information about the Reilly Big-Bore SxS rifle which has come to light in Ireland. It is SN'd 22432 probably numbered in very late 1880 or very early 1881. It is a .577 SxS Jones Under-Lever Rifle with what appears to be back-action locks.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There is an inscription on the barrel flats - presumably some Celtic runes followed by "RM" - probably the owner.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The "5288" on the under rib probably is a Birmingham barrel maker number. I can’t tell if these are Steel barrels or blued damascus – possibly the latter since Reilly was not advertising Whitworth steel until late 1881. There looks to be a faint 22xxx on the barrels which would have been the stamped serial number. Perhaps the original barrels were blued at some point.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The address on the rib is 502 New Oxford Street. It does not match the case label which is for 277 Oxford Street in a format not seen (Gun and Rifle Makers on leather) until the 1890's.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There is a problem: a gun with the same description and SN 22432 was sold 10 years ago at Holts:
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214++++914+&refno=+++76477

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At that time the Holt's gun was housed in a case with a label with the address 16, New Oxford Street and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris (1885-1886).

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That case had the name of George Sackville Sinclair Wemyss on it . He died in Scotland in 1882. Six years ago we speculated that the case was not original to the gun or that it had been returned to Reilly for servicing and a new label added (and it does appear that that label was indeed a replacement of some sort.

Possible solutions to the problem:

1) There are two Reilly 22432's (unlikely)

2)This gun in Ireland is the same as the Holt's gun but the case and label has been changed.

The case though very similar seem to have slight differences.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The stocks look similar (photos are not good)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The sights on the guns look slightly different though it is hard to tell from the quality of the photos.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

3) or once again Holt's got mixed up by the similarities between Reilly's "3"'s and "5"'s and the "Wemyss" cased gun was in fact "22452” not “22432." Holt's did not publish photos of the SN or mention the inscription/initials which are on the barrel flats of the Irish gun, something they usually would done (unless Holt's was trying to use the Wemyss name on the case to sell the gun).

Diggory has been asked to try to find out more about the Irish gun. Personally I think they are the same gun.

Last edited by Argo44; 03/17/24 10:40 AM.

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Same gun and case with a changed label for my money. The difference in picture quality covers the possible detail discrepancies I`d think.

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Argo44 Offline OP
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UK Archives forwarded copies of the 25 November 1911 incorporation of EM Reilly & Co. into a Limited Liability company and the bankruptcy documents from June 8, 1912. It was hoped that these documents would include an inventory of Reilly properties and assets at the time. Instead there is nothing but legalese.

However, three historical bits can be discerned from them:

1) Herbert Reilly in 1911 had no partners in the business. When the company became Ltd., George Watkinson Roberts, accountant and bankruptcy lawyer, became a partner. It was evident that by autumn 1911 Herbert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and positioned the company to protect his private assets.

2) When bankruptcy was declared all the assets went to Roberts to dispose of. This is probably why Reilly made a great effort to sell off all his remaining guns in 1911. In the serial number chart as currently configured some 60+ guns were numbered and sold in 1911 - 4 times the number sold in 1910.

3) IGC history (which was not a bad original effort before the internet - and which stated Reilly made his own guns) commented that Reilly might have leased and moved to 13 High Street, Marylebone fall 1911 before the incorporation of EM Reilly & C0.. These documents mention nothing of this and it is evident Reilly remained at 295 Oxford Street until bankruptcy. 295 was leased to a hat maker in autumn 1912.
(It is possible that Reilly leased the Marylebone building before declaring bankruptcy and moved some of his machinery there; creditors would have been left essentially with an empty building in such a case. So far no way to investigate this possibility has been found).

Edit: I've written Archives asking if there is anyway to find out what was sold out of 295 Oxford Street to satisfy the creditors - assuming the G. Watkinson Roberts would have handled this.

Here are a couple of the documents for the record:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 03/22/24 05:05 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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