doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com OT 6.5x53R????

I just purchased an old english sporter in 6.5x53R. Does anyone have any experience loading for this round.

Thanks.

Daniel

Here you go:

Load data - almost
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=1078

Loaded ammo
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5669.html

Cases
http://www.grafs.com/product/183584

Pete

I'll see if I can find my data at home....reloader 15, I'll see how many grains. Bullets 160 gr Hornady round nose, velocity is 2350. A great round......what kind of sporter? No pics?
Steve

Daniel-

I also have an english sporter chambered in this round.
It's a great cartridge, and has quite a place in the 'good old days' of the Africa Ivory trade.
WDM Bell used it successfully on elephant for quite some time before he switched to the 7mm.
Google WDM Bell and 6.5mm and see what you come up with!
You'll find some very interesting stories, and likely some leads on load data.

Like the others here on the thread I'll have to dig for my load data.
I have yet to finish my load development for my particular rifle.

I form brass from WW 303Brit brass
Your rifle was likely set up to run the 160gr bullet, I use the Hornady 160gr round nose which is very similar to the sporting bullet design from the period.

Will you please tell us more about your rifle?
Who made it, is it a Jeffery?
Can you post photos?


--Tinker

Thanks for the responses. I will try to get some pictures posted.

The rifle was built upon an Steyr action. It has a 24 inch barrel with two leaf sights. The stock is nicely checkered and is straight gripped. The gun utilized the old eye type sling swivels. The barrel is marked Gray & Co. 14 Union Street Inverness. The ring of the action is marked 1892, and the side of the action is marked 1893.

Thanks,

Daniel

I have a carbine sporter built on a Romanian M93 (Steyr) in it's original 6.5x53R caliber. Original barrel used w/ 1/4 rib added, 2 leaf sight, DST, full length stock & and some engraving that's hard to see in my pics. Nice light weight carbine. Just started case forming and loading. Using 303 British (Greek Military HXP 'cause I have a bunch of it) and 6.5x54 M/S dies. A bit of work but I finally worked out a few bugs and got it to shoot. I've only fired it with my starting load of 30gr of IMR 4350, CCI primer, 160gr Hornady SP bullets. 3 shots touching but 4" high at 25yrds (my only range available on Sunday AM as skeet shooting interfere with the 50 & 100 yrd ranges (lead rain). Some rear sight filing looks to be in order at some point. The load comes from an article by Ken Waters in Handloader Magazine "256 Mannlicher-Pet Loads". His load was 37gr, I backed off to 30gr to start and haven't bothered to play around with anything else yet. Haven't had time. A couple of pics of the carbine and the loading table.
>
I've read others state that loading data for the 6.5 Italian Carcano is a good starting point for this caliber due to the similarities of the cases and that the Italian round being a bit smaller in length (51mm) gives a margin of safety. Sounds reasonable. I haven't dug up any data on the Carcano round to compare with the above to see if they do in fact have any relationship. I suspect they do but I try to avoid 'wildcatting' especially when sitting behind a 100 year old rifle with custom formed cases. I also had in storage from years ago a large (2000+) supply of pulled military 6.5cal FMJ 160gr bullets. I bought them for something like $1 per box of 200pcs. Squirreled away waiting for the day I knew would come when I could freely load them and shoot something I would own for nearly nothing. Unfortunately, they are pulled Carcano bullets of .268" diameter and they stick in the seater die of my Redding die set. They would have to make them so precise. The groove dia. of the carbine above is actually .268" as are alot of the Euro military 6.5 rifles of that period, but I'll have to size them down .004" to use them I guess. With the price of bullets, It'll be worth it. Good stuff for my 1903 M/S too.

My rifle's barrel slugged out at .268. Let me know if you want to get rid of some of your .268 bullets.

Thanks,

Daniel

Daniel-

Almost all of these old brit mannlicher sporting rifles have oversized bores -- and shoot best with the .264 Hornady 6.5mm 160grSNRN

It might take a little adjustment for you to feel comfortable doing it, but load some of these up and shoot the rifle.
You'll likely be very surprised with how well they shoot.

Hornady also makes a .268 6.5 that they market for the carcano.
I'm pretty disappointed with this bullet, especially in the 6.5/53r and the 6.5/54mannlicher.
The bullet is almost completely cylindrical, not tapered like the .264 is and like the proper period round nose bullets were, which featured a long 'bore-riding' section in front of the cannelure, and a cylindrical .264 section behind the cannelure.
The .268 just didn't perform well at all in my Jeffery sporter. The rounds weren't accurate, the pressures were a pain to track, and didn't seem intuitive when compared to the chrono readings.
I've abandoned them in my load development.
I know quite a few guys who have gone down the same road.
I actually called the guys at Hornady one day last year, noting this unfortunate design problem, comparing it to it's 264 brother. The guy I was talking to didn't even know of this issue, so I asked him to set the phone reciever down for a minute, get a box of them and a micrometer, and get back on the phone with me. He was surprised that Hornady had done this with the carcano bullet. I don't expect them to revise the bullet forming dies any time soon, but I might call them again on this later in the year to see if they've done anything about it.

If your bore is *very nice* you might want to look at casting hard cast bullets for it. There are some very nice moulds available, and you can get a range of lubrisizer dies to experiment with while working up the perfect load for your rifle.
The bore of my rifle is a bit rough, so it's jacketed bullets for me. Tried the .268 and haven't looked back since.

Don't let that bore measurement be a dealbreaker for you.
Get some components and get it running.

And post some images of it for us to see!

Here's an image of my WJ Jeffery

A closeup of the banded bank of rear sights



--Tinker

Thanks for the information! Your Jeffery is very nice. Is that a peep sight on the end of the bolt?

Daniel

I'll second Tinker's findings with the .268 dia Carcano bullets in a 6.5 Mannlicher. Not worth the time. As I said, my carbine and most every other 6.5 European Military barrel I've ever checked was .268 or close to it, but the ammo was .264,,except the Carcano of course. Aside from them getting stuck in (my) seater die, they could, depending on your case neck dia., expand the neck dia. a bit too large for the chamber and cause problems. These Military Carcano bullets are .268 all the way down, unlike the commercial bullets Tinker had which had a .264 dia seating dia. section. You may need a slightly larger expander button for your die with these to better allow seating of the .268 bullet. Neck turning/reaming are options,, use of Carcano dies for neck sizing only...Lots of little things for usually no gain in accuracy, and perhaps a loss. The .264's shoot so well in my 1903 M/S (with it's .267" groove dia) and so far the early reports are that they will shoot well in the Steyr carbine as well, I have no intention to even try my hoard of .268's as is. I'll make up a simple push thru sizer to squeeze them down to .264 and spend a mind numbing couple of hours making them usable.
That is a great looking sporter Tinker. I have a Dutch 95 action that I'd like to barrel to either 6.5 or 303 and make up a sporter like that. More perfect lines I can't think of..Thanks for posting the pics..