doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cogswell and Harrison Question

Hi, Jack, I second Skips question. I'm thinking very, very hard about getting the gun I posted a link to when I started this thread.

Please let us know.

All the best!!

Greg

As far as I know, all Victors are sidelocks, not sideplates.

Hi all, the below information was provided by Mike Baines from across the pond. I want to thank him for his kind input and ok to post this here for all of us. Here's what he has to say:

The sidelock models were as follows: the Victor which sub divided into the Model de Lux, Pigeon Gun, Non Ejector and Small Bore. Then there was the Primic, The Crown, The Tower, The Huntic and the Moorgrey; the latter being a cheap non ejector model. The boxlocks were as follows: The Desideratum, The General Purpose, The Blagdon Single Trigger (which was side plated), Then the Avant Tout Light model and Rover which were straight boxlocks, the the Avant Tout models with the Longfort patent breech which sub divided into the Konor, the Sandhurst and the Blagdon which were all side plated and the Rex which was a straight boxlock, note here that the Blagdon was also available as a boxlock as well as the side plated model. Other boxlocks were the Markor and Regency; both of which were not side plated and the Ambassador which was also available as a boxlock and a side plated model. It seems as the Blagdon and Ambassador were available in two versions. The Certus was a single barrel. There was also a single barrel gun that was made in Belgium and then given a little further engraving to add to the crude duck on the side which they also sold in their name. I had one but could never find any further information on it.

Larry was correct but that gun was available in two versions. Maybe, if you can get the serial number, only C & H can sort out the riddle. Mike..... p.s. you posted a similar question on another forum. Please feel free to cut and paste this answer if it may interest others. Mike.....

Thanks again Mike!

Greg

No, it is a side plated gun. Larry Brown and his friend, Larry Harwood, have both looked at the gun closely. It is simply spectacular.

sv

Steve: Until someone can prove otherwise, I can't believe there ever was a sideplated Coggie boxlock with the 'Victor' designation. The Victor was always C&H's top of the line, and they made some fine 'London Best' SLEs. No matter how lovely it is, I suspect your friend's sideplated Coggie is another model.

I agree with Jack on this: all Victor guns were true sidelocks and there was a range of model names for the sideplated boxlocks built on the Avant Tout action as described by Mike above.

I believe the "Extra Quality Victor Grade sideplated boxlock" for sale on Safari Outfitters site(http://www.safarioutfittersltd.com/EnglishPage5.htm) is in fact a sideplated boxlock "Tower model" not a Victor gun at all.

Similarly, one of pairs of C&H "SLE's" on Bass Pro Shops site are clearly sideplated boxlocks, not sidelocks as advertised (ihttp://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&appID=36&viewMode=thumbnails&catID=52&direction=DESC&gunid=3893&mode=viewGun). The other pair on this site looks like SLE's.

The problem is that C&H did not put model names on the boxlock guns except for "Avant Tout" on the rib to denote the action type. And the uninitiated confuse sideplated boxlocks for true sidelocks. Bass Pro shops should know better though!

Sorry to have to muddy the waters a bit more but a number of years ago I owned a C&H 12 BLE that was sideplated and of very high quality. Very similar to the gun illustrated on Safari Outfitters website except it was a game gun with 30" damascus barrels,
spectacular wood and had original nitro proof marks from the 1896-1904 era.It definitely had Extra Quality Victor Grade engraved on the top rib.I have since assumed this term was used for their best quality guns whether SL or BL.Perhaps a phone call to Niles at Safari would help to confirm.
Terry

Jack, you're asking me to do something that's beyond my limited computer/photo skills! The Blagdon to which I refer is shown on p. 114 of "Buxton's Guide to Foreign Firearms", which I expect other folks here also possess. Appears Mike Baines is also aware of non-sideplated Blagdons. This one has a listed price (early 60's) of $75 less than the Konor. The ad copy does say "Same optional features as the 'Konor' are available for this model." I suppose those optional features could include sideplates, although I'm pretty sure they were standard rather than optional on the Konor.

Steve, are you referring to Doug's Coggie? That is indeed a very nice gun, but I'll be darned if I can remember the model. Seems it's a sidelock rather than a sideplated gun, and I do recall that it has a single trigger.

One note of caution: older guns are sometimes 'upgraded' by switching or re-engraving ribs. Unethical, but it does happen - at least, with guns which have been sleeved.

Cogswell & Harrison model names are far from cast in stone - sometimes it seems as if they stuck any name handy on any gun going out the door, regardless of its features. But Mike Baines did a fine job of defining the most likely combinations of names and models - thanks to Mike, and to Greg for posting!

Are you two talking about the guy at the 2006 Flatwater shoot with the smallbore Coggie he bought at Cabelas? If so, that gun was a "KONOR". At the time there were two for sale a different Cabelas, they were almost identical...one was a 20 and the other a 16.