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3 members (9372, dukxdog, 1 invisible),
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,155
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,155 |
Rex and Sandhurst were not sideplated--or, as Coggie would have said, were not fitted with "ornamental strengthening plates". The Sandhurst was sideplated. Is there a way to tell if it is a Cosmos or an Avant Tout? 'Avant Tout' refers specifically to C&H's patented assisted-opening ejector system, and is also generally applied to the range of Cogswell & Harrison boxlocks using it. The 'Avant Tout' name did not necessarily appear on these guns. The ball-and-shot gun on Plate 9, for example, is both a Cosmos and an Avant Tout.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,109 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,109 Likes: 195 |
My 1907 Avant Tout crossover gun is marked "Avant Tout" on the rib.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 433 Likes: 42
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 433 Likes: 42 |
Jack, thank you. It has Avant Tout features including the assisted opening mechanism. All that is missing is the marking on the rib. That has only the company name and address.
I don't know if I will ever get the letter from C & H that gives all of the record information. Do most people recommend it or is it just eighty-something dollars that could be better spent elsewhere? Via email they gave me the date of manufacture right down to the day of completion, January 21, 1914.
Skip
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1 |
A friend owns a C&H 16 bore that is exquistite. It looks similar to the gun linked above and is marked "Extra Quality Victor" on the floorplate. He tells me it is circa 1905. Lovely little gun at 5 lbs. 9 oz.
sv
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,155
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Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,155 |
My 1907 Avant Tout crossover gun is marked "Avant Tout" on the rib. What is a "crossover gun"? As I said, not all Avant Tout guns are so marked - some are, some aren't. Only the actual ejector/assist mechanism is definitive. The Victor sidelock is at the top of the C&H line - lovely guns!
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
The closest I can come to is a Blagdon model in the Avant Tout series. The also did a cartridge called the Blagdon, loaded for them by Eley-Kynoch, and I have a box of them in front of me now. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 116 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 116 Likes: 3 |
I acquired a pair of Avant Tout, Sandhurst model 12 bores in a trade this year that look very much like the the gun on the Hill Rod and Gun website. I believe that is probably also a Sandhurst model sideplated boxlock. My guns have Avant Tout on the rib (the name of the assisted opening action used thru a wide range of C&H guns over the years) but not the model name: Sandhurst.
I learned that they were Sandhurst models by purchasing a very thorough certificate of origin from C&H (http://www.cogswell.co.uk/home.htm#). It took about a month to get the letter from C&H.
These dressed up assisted opening boxlocks are nicely engraved and are good shooters but this action is not well thought of in the mother country. The assisted opening works with the most force when the gun is unfired as the spring that runs the assisted opening mechanism also drives the ejectors. Once fired (when you would want the assisted opening) much of the spring energy goes to the push the ejectors rather than opening the gun. Hence they have a bad rep and there are many of them out there. So the Sandhurst model is relatively inexpensive for a fully engraved English boxlock ejector.
Nonetheless, I like my pair very much and am in the process of having JJ Perodeau restore them.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121 |
Thanks Dr P, I appreciate all the info, especially on the assisted opening. I want to ask, if the gun is a hard opener after being fired? Also, how does this ejector system compare with the Southgate ejector?
Could you also give me your opinion on the quality and workmanship of the Sandhurst model?
Thanks so very much!!!
All the best!!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 116 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 116 Likes: 3 |
The gun springs open if not fired (fully assisted) and opens easily after being fired (partially assisted). Like the H&H style assisted opening mechanism, the guns are a bit harder TO CLOSE than non-assisted opening guns (but this is supposed to be your loader's problem not the man shooting the gun). I don't ever find them particularly hard to close however. The Southgate ejector system is generally considered to be superior to Avant Tout ejectors. Someone with more expertise than I should expound on this however. The workmanship is very good on mine. C&H used more machining than the London best gun houses. They were the economy London gun maker. Nonetheless, the hand finishing and engraving is very good. The Sandhurst is a good value but don't confuse them with the Victor sidelocks. See: http://www.cogswell.co.uk/ownedtext.htm#33
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121 |
Thanks again Dr P!! Sure appreicate all the info. Well dummy me, misspoke, I did mean to ask if the gun closed hard not opened hard! Duh!!
But, again, thanks so much!
All the best!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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