doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cogswell and Harrison Question

Hi all, for all you English gun experts, I was wondering if you can ID what model this Coggy is?

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/picture.php?id=12477

Is it the Konor or perhaps the Sandhurst?

Infact any info or opinions on this gun and C&H would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!!

All the best!

Greg

Don't know, but I have a field grade Avant Tout I could be persuaded to part with. In it's original (but beat up) makers case with some owner's name and regimental address on it.

GJW before I'd buy that gun I'd want to see a photo of the seamless sleeving. I love Westley Richard guns but all of their sleeve jobs that I've seen weren't what I'd call seamless.

gjw - the gun looks almost identical to my sideplated Coggie, described in C&H's records as "a type T112 twelve bore side-by-side boxlock...fitted with our company's patented ejector and asisted opening mechanism - the Avant Tout." No model name is given.

My gun was No. 1 of a bespoke matched pair, built in 1906 at C&H's Gillingham Works in London. The nearest illustration in Cooley & Newton's book 'Cogswell & Harrision - Two Centuries of Gunmaking' is of a Sandhurst, but C&H shifted model names from time to time.

My gun is stamped 'sleeved' and 'Hill Rod & Gun' under the barrels - they did a nice job. I would think that Westley Richards would have done at least as well.

Ok guy, here is what I have,
"The 'Avant Tout', hammerless ejector guns first came into production in 1896 - many thousands were sold - their popularity was unbounded- and even today, the company is asked for this well known model. The 'Konor', 'Sandhurst' and 'Rex' were of this series and today are known by their individual names but have been greatly improved".

"The name 'Avant Tout' has become synonymous with Cogswell & Harrison and was first used for a range of self-ejecting hammer guns as early as 1888.
In 1949 the Avant Tout series reappears in the form of the Konor (Avant Tout I), Sandhurst (Avant Tout II) and Rex (Avant Tout III) ejector guns. All are boxlocks, or 'enclosed locks' to quote the catalogue, although the Konor was fitted with ornamental sideplates which were claimed to strengthen the head of the stock and give added surface area for engraving".
Complicated model configurations!!!

Sandhurst and Konor were both sideplated boxlocks, as was Blagdon. The Sandhurst pre-dates the others by many years - the Konor was made in the post-WWII years when some claim that Coggie quality had declined. But there were Coggies made with sideplates from 1900 onward, many without those model names, as well. The C&H model names are not a reliable guide.

Greg, I think that's probably too early a gun for it to be a Konor. I owned a Konor (briefly--you can see it on the Cabela's website I think, not a problem with the gun but rather with the shooter/gun combination!) and they're later guns. Rex and Sandhurst were not sideplated--or, as Coggie would have said, were not fitted with "ornamental strengthening plates". (I love that description!) I'm guessing it's some earlier iteration of the Avant Tout series, as indicated above.

FYI, Coggie did it backwards (as did Scott with their 700 numbering system) when it comes to the Avant Tout models Treblig listed above. The Konor (AT I) is the highest grade; the Rex (AT III) the lowest. Anyone looking for a dandy 20 bore Brit grouse and woodcock gun, Kirby Hoyt has a really nice Rex.

Thanks guys, great responses, I'm learning a lot!!

Please keep them coming!!

All the best!

Greg

I have a gun which looks identical to the Cosmos in Plate 9 of the Cogswell & Harrison book. I thought an Avant Tout had the model name on the rib. Is there a way to tell if it is a Cosmos or an Avant Tout?

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