doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Early days of England's best gunmakers

Don, the thread is wafting off into thin air, but let me make a few final observation if I may; consider early engravers. How many of them tried to pass-off slag on steel? Their work simply speaks for itself. If they were'nt any good, they found another apprenticeship. There was no "supervision". Would you equate engravers to be as talented as best action-filers, stockers and finishers?


Yes, of course the owners had to supervise. But I put it to you that most of their woes were due to their own greed and bad management- trying to make more guns than they had labor for. A craftsman is just that and shouldnt be confused with a hack holding a file.

Have a good weekend,

C.

Good points, CK. I wonder how self-starting would compare among the various specialties? Were engravers more motivated than barrel makers? One would expect an outworker to be more highly motivated - if he wanted to "get ahead." So, what % of best engraving was done by inworkers as compared to done by outworkers?

Looks like rain - which we really need!!

I thought they just immigrated to America and went to work.

Don't remember whick book but I read where one maker went to the engraver and told him to put on as much as he could for 20#s or some such figure.Fairly sure it was one of GB's books on Britsh gunmakeing.

Following is a quote from a maker to the engraver.

We send you a Best Gun to be engraved in the very best way....
As our polisher has now as much work as he can do would you kindly ask Mr.(name) if he would now harden some of the guns for us(and blue).

Question for those who have handled a lot of English guns, and picking up on what Rocketman said.

Do those guns from houses that did their own finishing and assembly in house consistently have just a little more quality than those known for outsourcing the entire completed gun?

I am reminded of a scene from the movie "The Red Violin" where the owner was walking through his shop and smashed a violin in progress that he didn't think was up to his name's standards. Tough to do anything about it though should the completed gun arrive from the actual maker with your name on it and it is not up to your expectations or your customer's.

Yeah - sure. But was the retailer selling it as a Best-grade gun, or as a sub grade?

And can you share pics & the maker's name?

I would love to see it and learn more.

Thanks

OWD

BTW: I checked out Hawker. I didn't realize that Treblig already quoted from the Colonel's book "Instructions to a Young Sportsmen..." If anyone wants to read the excerpt, go here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=yXUCAAA...result#PPA13,M1

and look at around pg. 6.

DRM - best work is best work reguardless of the name on the gun. Original Quality must be judged independently of the Maker's Name. So, a Midland best gun must be as good as a Purdey best gun; it will always sell for less due to difference in Brand Value.

If a finished gun arrive at William Evans and it didn't meet ordered quality, it went basc post haste.

Rocketman, are you English?You talk far too much sense to be domiciled in the Colonies.
In this weeks edition of Shooting Times John Knibbs formerly of BSA writes an article about the Birmingham Gun Trade.
"Fifty years ago the Birmingham Gun Trade Registry listed a total of only 30 master gunmakers, of whom just 20 made guns under their own name, others in the registry branched out into gun related activities"
"A current check of members of the Birmingham Trade Registry lists 44 active gunmakers or companies, the highest number for 100 years".
Right now settle down and let me give you a little history lesson.
London is the home of the self proclaimed 'Best' gunmakers.
Birmingham is the home of the workshop to the World.
W.W.Greener who possibly did more for gunmaking than even Joe Manton based his workshops in Birmingam, so did Westley Richards, & WC Scott who between them shaped what we all use and love and cherish today.
So lets end the myth that only London produced a quality shotgun once and for all.
Anyone who doubts this should have a look at a current Purdey or H&H then go to Birmingham and look at a current Greener or A.A.Brown.
Getting back to the original question of this thread about in house manufacture.
A current Greener although made wholly by Greener the components are all crafted by individual craftsmen specialising in different aspects of the gun in different workshops until final assembly where it becomes the responsibility of the finisher to pass off all quality issues.

Didn't you know everybody with any sense left Jolly old England years ago.

You really should edit your post ol'chap it should read.....Birmingham was the home of the workshop to the World now Turkey is.