doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Early days of England's best gunmakers

DRM, so tell me do you feel the makers got away with one so to speak by outsourcing? I just do not understand why you are so passionate about this subject.

Tim

Them who brought in guns - and them who had the top out-workers finish 'em, did a fair enough job for most.
Perhaps real makers couldn't rear their heads from the third tier.
Its all in the finish product.

I agree with you 110%.

A Democrat for O'bama is an "unfortunate poor soul"...

Back to the topic...it's simple

There is no simple answer....when you talk about English guns their makers or their purveyors you have address each one individually.

Interesting stuff here and we are finally getting to the nitty gritty of the English trade. Concerning the history of Cogswell & Harrison, and I quote, "Prior to the take over of William Moore & Grey in 1908, Cogswell & Harrison made some fine quality London sidelock ejectors that Moore & Grey sold under its own name"
Also, "In the post war period substantial trade work was done for Cogswell & Harrison by J. Blanch & Sons who also undertook work for companies in the Churchill, Atkin, Grant & Lang group".

DRM-

Why does it seem like you want to perpetuate the myth that many or most of the makers were not making guns.

While this may have been the case for a handful of "makers", most outfits in the UK that called themselves gunmakers were doing just that - making guns.

I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make?

Regardless of the name on them, an English gun's quality is what has made them so desirable. That's what has stood the test of time.


OWD

OK, let's address E.M.Reilly&CO. It is the only Brit gun I own. Also the best gun I own. Tell me what you know: Maker or Merchant???...Geo

Don't ask me... I'm a Scott man myself.

Another convoluted tid bit of information, "By 1815, it was the London gunmakers turn to bring a bill into the House of Commons that would have required every manufacturer to place his real name on his product but 'such was the power of the Birmingham gun trade that they were able to quash the bill, pointing out that they supplied most of the components for the London Makers'"

This may shed some light though, "Many wiseacres abuse all the heads of the trade, and swear that they can ALWAYS GET THE BEST OF GUNS, at a quarter the price, from Birmingham! This may be, provided a person has such good judgment, or interest there, as to get PICKED WORKMAN FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS of his order: but, in general, the immense business carried on at this place is for the WHOLESALE LINE, and only requires to be IN THE ROUGH; from, which circumstances the workmen are not much in the habit of FINISHING as those employed daily FOR THAT PURPOSE.
So, to answer the questions posed above, the trade was a DULL one and it was NOT unusual to buy guns wholesale from Birmingham and finish them to a high standard in London."
This argument was posed in 1814.

I know that, Joe, and you have some fine guns to prove it. What about the rest of you guys. Salopian said I was wrong about Reilly being a merchant rather than a maker and for all I know he is dead right. What say the rest of you...Geo

You both are probably right.