doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Simson Suhl Shotguns

I apologize if this topic has been covered as I can find loads of "What is the value of a Simson..." all over the place. Does anyone use/hunt a Simson currently?

I am posting a question to any of the members out there who may be owners or who have owned and used, any Simson Suhl shotguns. I have spent some time on the net and know that they are of Merkle design, the family had to leave Germany when Adolf Hitler came to power and then returned at wars end.

I have a chance to pick up a really nice Simson 16 ga but can find little actual "I have/had one and I love/didn't like it" facts and personal experiences.

Any help and information would be most appreciated. I would think you might have trouble with parts and service.

Gary; Have you looked into or talked with anyone from the GGCA, German Gun Collectors Assn. There should be someone there that can give you some good information. I just bought 2 german guns but haven't had the chance to use them very much yet. Just on the trap and sporting clays course. I like them both so far.
Hope this is some help.
Tom

A good friend has a lovely pre-war 16ga that he just had freshened up, I covet it highly. Concerning fit and finish the early guns I've seen are on a par with Sauers but not Lindners.

Hello Gary,

I have bought three Simson's in the past two years, one for me and two for two of my
sons. Two 12 bore, one of which has claw scope mounts (called SEM in Germany), and
one 16 Bore for my 15 year old son. They are the plain model boxlocks, DT, extractors,
great shooters, all second hand.

I took mine apart to disengage the auto safety feature (that I hate) and could see how
well made they are, everything polished and well finished.

They should prove to be very reliable and rugged shooters. As far as parts go I think
you should be able to find them through someone in Germany. Surely the members
of the German Guns Collectors Assoc. know where: http://www.germanguns.com

JC

They are wonderful. Drawbacks might be sometimes they have cheek pieces and sling swivels. Cheek pieces are fine if the gun fits and sling swivels are a little ugly maybe but can be very functional. The guns are often plain but the older ones, even the most-plain ones are incredibly well made. I noticed Hill Rod & Gun has at the top of their web page one that looks like a nice German 16 (I don't know if it is a Simson but just for comparison).

I have one in 12 gauge, but I don't use it as the stock does not fit me at all.
It's a plain but well built boxlock DT, with a cheek piece and sling swivels...
One of these days I'll give it a proper stock.

Thanks guys. I am leaning on picking up a nice 12 ga for ducks. I really appreciate the input.

GLM:

I have the Merkel Mod. 76E (version of the Simson (top of the line box lock)) in 12g with cheekpiece, double trigger and hunting scene engraved side-plates. It's the best fitted (to me)gun in my cabinet and marvel at its overall fit and finish for the money spent......purchased slightly used at Waffen Frankonia, Munich during the first GGCA trip to the former E. and W. Germany.

Note, as I understand, the Simson brothers came to New York city during the time of WWII, never to return to their gun mfg. business in Germany.
Smiles

I have three pre war Simson guns I consider among my favorites. One is a light weight 16 gauge O/U gun that does indeed appear to be very similar to a Merkel design, the other two are nicely engraved S x S 16's, well above "entry" level guns but not elaborate, very similar to Sauer designs, and they all handle and shoot like a dream. Remember that Simson was the largest gun maker in pre war Europe, much larger than either Sauer or Merkel, this according to published materials from the GGCA. The designs might be similar to Merkel, or to Sauer, but I believe they were original to Simson. They cetainly had the ability and capability to design their own stuff, being that large.

I think the O/U frames were sourced from Ernst or Franz Steigleder. If you can find one(O/U or SxS) close to your dimensions, you will be well pleased. For a field gun, sling swivels are very functional but some of the Iver Johnson's by Simson I've handled either didn't have the front eye or it was ground off, which is an atrocity. Simson was large making bicycles and cars and apparently very good at contracts after WWI and the Treaty of Versailles.

But it didn't end very well for the original owners:

"The Nazis made an example of the Simson Company. ‘ ...Wilhelm Gustloff ... was an ardent Swiss Nazi shot dead in Bern by a Jewish student named David Frankfurter on 4 February 1936. To honor Gustloff, the Nazis had given his name to one of the first “Aryanized” companies of the Reich, in this case a firm formerly owned by the Jews Arthur and Julius Simson. The Simsons’ company, the Suhler Weapons and Vehicle Works, had received the dubious privilege of being the only Jewish firm to receive contracts from the German army after the Treaty of Versailles. That Jews should be entrusted with defense contracts, of course, enraged the Nazis. The national press had pilloried the Simsons since the 1920s, accusing them of embezzlement and demonizing them as the spearhead of a world Jewish consipracy to emasculate the German armed forces.’ --The Business of Genocide, p. 191.

During the war, Gustloff opened a factory at the Buchenwald concentration camp to manufacture carbines, and later machine guns, using slave labor. The Nazis considered this particularly appropriate for a company previously owned by Jews."

Arthur, after signing a document pleading guilty to being the source of depression for the German gun trade, which began with a letter for a group of manufactures from Zella-Mehlis headed by Fritz Walther to Hitler, escaped to Switzerland and immigrated to the US. He died sometime in 1969 in L.A., California.

And some history of what looks to be some sort of forced translation from German can be found here: http://www.economy-point.org/s/simson-suhl.html .

I'm chasing the name of a gunsmith or engraver of G. Gueanu(spelling) of Reghin(now Romania) who had some connection to Simson, or possibly Iver Johnson. Reghin had a majority of German Jewish folk, Transylvanian Saxons, from the Sasregen Hasidic Jewish clan. Germans refer to the town as Sachsisch, while the Hungarians called it Szasrengen. There seemed to be many shops there. Can anyone give me any direction?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse