doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Watching your dog make it

Since last year I have been worried about my Gordon Setter’s retrieving. Last year in the duck pond he was only about 40%. With upland birds even less. It seems he was so birdy once the bird was dead, he just wanted to find another. At the end of the season I bought a bunch of pen raised birds and got his retrieving to about 90% on pheasant and chukar. I lost my Spaniel this summer so Jack really had to step up to the plate as my retriever. I worked him all summer with a dummy in the pool and finally had him retrieving the dummy on land. I was anxious about dove season.

The first time I took him out he ran to the first bird, picked it up and spit it out. The next two he barely would touch them. That was all we got that day. I took him home and played fetch in the hallway in my house and he started to eat them. I disciplined him and he then regressed. I thought I was doomed to have him force broke. Fortunately I was wrong.

Took him out Friday and the hunt went great! Buy the end he was retrieving my last bird from the canal I was shooting near. I was elated. Saturday while working in the garage he stole my game vest at least 6 times. He would take it into the middle of the lawn and sniff the pouch. No licking the blood, he just snorted the smell until I took it away. Took him out Sunday with my son and shot two more limits and by the end he was a dove hunting fool! He really helped find several doves in the weeds lost in the vineyard that I never would have found without him. I can’t tell you what a great feeling it was.

I have never had to force break any of my spaniels over the last 20 years; I really feel a natural retriever is the best. I am sure many of you will agree. I just thought some of you might enjoy my story.

Jerry

I always was a sucker for a story with a happy ending.

It's almost like you can see a light bulb blink on over his head when Pup "gets it".

Gerald,

It is nice when Fido gets it right isn't it?

Like you, one of my lot is giving me grief; not because he won't retrieve but because I can't stop him. He'd swim to America after a duck.

However his brace mate is a great consolation! Handles a dream and hunts like a demon....I'll post some pics of us picking up when the season gets going; unlikely to be Scotland though, I haven't got anything booked up until the xmas break.

Regards
eug

Training dogs is like training children, it just takes a lot of patience.

It's not fair to compare Labs with others, but I've found that a soft hand works wonders. When my bouncy 90-pounder gets out of line I lower my head, cross my arms and quickly turn my back on him. It's like a dagger through his heart. Results are positive. Thanks for your story; we've all been through it one time or another.

It's nice that you didn't have to force-fetch your setter...but I for one am a believer in force-fetch.

Having trained dogs for Hunt Tests and Field Trials (retriever), but primarily for waterfowl and dove hunting, I can tell you that the advantages to FF are more than simply insuring a retrieve. FF, if done properly, is the basis for eliminating hard-mouth, teaching advanced handling, and proper delivery of birds. It is also a very useful tool when working multiple retrieves.

I've not trained Gordon's, and don't know their personality. I can tell you, however, that Chessies (contrary to popular misconception the SOFTEST of the retriever breeds) do well with FF, as do Golden and Lab females, which often tend to be "soft" as well.

For more information on FF, check out the following websites:
web page

web page

Ozpa, I agree with you on force-fetch. Although I'm trying a different approach. In reading articles about pointing breeds, they say that the only way to teach a dog to retrieve is to force-fetch. If you try to teach a young dog to retrieve decoys, they say it is fun for the puppy but he will get bored later on and not want to retrieve, plus you cannot make them steady on point.
As I said I am trying a different approach. After 20+ years, I got a new English Setter puppy now 3 months old. Have him sitting staying, fetching a decoy and will be working with him soon on quail or pigeons. The expert trainers say no to this approach, but most of the time they are training more than one dog. I'm only training one, and since I have all the time in the world to do this, I believe that if you can get your puppy or older dog to listen to your commands, then you can make him steady to wing and shot. I love the command "whoa", but won't use it because it is to close to "no", and I think that is a better command. Stay is my word for whoa. David

I agree that FF is not the only way to teach reliable retrieving...however I do believe it is the best way to teach a retriever.

IMO the single most important step in introducing retrieving to a pup (less than 6 mos, pre-FF) is to LIMIT THE RETRIEVES. My first Chessie is a hard charger, even was as a pup. Even though he had drive and desire, it would wane after a few retrieves. I followed the advice of the pros, which I'm now passing on to you, for what its worth. NO MORE THAN 3 RETRIEVES at a time for a puppy. Some days I quit after only one short retrieve. I even took 3 or 4 days off with absolutely NO retrieving. When the bumper came back out, the pup came unglued. Never, ever, let the pup get bored. If the pup doesn't come back, or doesn't go out hard, put the retrieving object up for the day (I often trained before 8 am, and then again at 6 or 7 pm... poor performance in the morning would mean only 1 retrieve, or no retrieves in the afternoon.)

I miss training a puppy...so much success and so little expectation.

Todd

Todd, I agree with you in the number of times for retrieving. I always reward my puppy with a treat when he brings it back. Sometimes I can see a little of the playful side in him when he doesn't bring it right to me but behind me, and then to me. Always when I throw the dummy I will say "fetch, dead bird". I belive it is important to teach a dog to hunt dead, I have seen too many pointing dogs that do not know how to hunt dead. Now, I am putting a little pheasant scent on the decoy and throwing it without him seeing it and bringing him downwind of the decoy and telling him "dead bird", and I can see his reaction to the scent and work it till he finds it.
On a planted "real bird" I'm sure he is going to want to break in on it the first couple of times, but that's what obediance training is all about.

Guys, thanks for these insights and opinions on force fetching. I'm getting a Lab soon and it will be fairly far along in training, including ff, I'm told. In what little I've read, this is a contriversial issue with some claiming it's the 'only way' and others hard over against it. I think one thing most seem to agree on is that retrieval training is a fundamental milestone in the dog's training and a building block to more complex training.