doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Faux Damascus---Who Used It?

I'm wondering what U.S. makers of doubles used the Faux Damascus design on their guns? I know L. C. Smith and Lefever never did and am reasonably sure the other majors like Parker, Ithaca, Baker, etc. also did not. A guy recently claimed his Ithaca Grade 4 Flues was "fluid steel with Damascus print pattern." The ink must have been pretty corrosive because you could feel the "print". I've offered to pay double asking price to a few L.C. Smith sellers if they could prove their guns were fake Damascus print, provided I get the gun for free if I could prove it wasn't. No takers yet.

Faux Damascus was around well before Europeans were making damascus barrels. It became an issue in the 1890's in Belgian. The larger makers were being undercut by small time makers who "faked" damascus to get more for their tubes. The "Union des Fabricants de Canons de Fusils de Le Vallee de la Vesdre" asked for and got a law that made it illegal to use "Damascus" or "Laminated" on fluid steel tubes. Often times these tubes were longitudinally welded. In all fairness, I should mention that faux damascus has shown up on English guns as well.

The law did not stop the practice entirely. Most of these barrels were of very poor quality. To the best of my knowledge, they appear on no name hardware store guns. The few I have handled had no makers marks what so ever. I purchased such a gun many years ago. Unfortunately when I found the pattern painted on, I scrapped it. Should have kept it as an example.

Here is an example of a cheap faux damascus.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...=true#Post58475

An American, Sachs filed a patent for the "Ornamenting of Barrels" 410678, in 1888
http://www.google.com/patents?id=aoxjAAAAEBAJ&dq=410678+sachs

So not all false damascus was painted on. In the Ottoman Empire it was engraved or etched.


Pete

Damascus Barrels

Pete I looked at the pictures of the junk Hamilton...I don't know what makes you so sure it's not twist.

Looks like cheap Belgium twist to me....also looks like someone put a coat of black paint on the barrels later in it's life time.

If I recall correctly, the "false Damascus" story on American doubles was supported by the fact that some of them are marked as being safe for smokeless powder. (Which, of course, doesn't necessarily prove that the barrels are false Damascus.) I don't recall the exact wording, but I seem to recall having seen that on Damascus-barreled Ithacas. Anyone have any examples of such markings on American doubles with Damascus barrels??

PeteM:

Your are correct about the Brits and the terms was Sham Dam(Sham Damn Skelp?) which probably wasn't coined by the makers as a marketing tool and for once may have correctly described the product. Classification or categorization of types is crucial for correlation and Sham Dam may be in a class of its own.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

You are correct. The English did use the term. Egerton has an interesting take on the term

http://damascus-barrels.com/How_1.html

Pete

Damascus Gallery

PeteM:


Excellent depiction in Figure No.2. Been at work, have you? Did the tradition of the floor of yards of horse dung make it to the English trade? Apparently w/out the horses(nails, shoes, dung), we may have never seen pattern welded tubes??

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hmm, good question! Perhaps not in London...

Pete
Damascus Time Line

So I take from this so far that none of the major American gunmakers used Faux Damascus or Sham Dam on their products? I have been offered examples many times by sellers of Colts, Ithaca, L. C. Smith, Parker, Baker, Remington, et al. No way of proving it, but I suspect the majority of these sellers knew better. That leads us to further imagine how many eventual buyers of these so-called "fluid steel with Damascus pattern guns" are out there shooting them, short chambers and all, with standard factory Nitro loads. I'd still like to find some definitive proof so I can continue to extend my Wager/Challenge to these unscrupulous sellers.