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#942 - 09/12/06 04:25 PM Faux Case Color
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
I received a private request for more complete details on this method I described in a recent post, so thought I would just put it up for all. This is copied directly from an Ithaca Service manual of about 25yrs ago.

To Repair or Restore Color Case on Perazzi's
1; This is a serious problem on guns that have been used extensively.
Equipment Required:
a. Cold blue (we use 44-40)
b. “Q” tips (cotton swabs on a stick)
c. Torch or other heat source
d. Paint remover (we use “Kwick”)
e. Fine steel wool
2; Procedure:
(1) Remove everything from the receiver.
(2) Remove lacquer from the receiver using “Kwick” or other liquid paint remover
(3) Wash receiver in a good solvent or boil with detergent.
(4) Using your heat source, heat the receiver to
a point where liquid cold blue will dry almost
instantly, (about 160°F)
(5) Using a “Q” tip, draw squiggly lines or
whatever is necessary to match existing color
hardening.
Note* If you have polished the receiver to bare
metal, space your lines about ¼” apart on the
first pass, then fill in on a 2nd pass.
(6) Using fine steel wool dipped in oil, remove
the oxidation from the receiver. Be careful
not to remove the color.
(7) Wash in good solvent. Do not touch before
applying lacquer.
(8) Spray with acrylic plastic from “Koloid”
(9) Reassemble gun & return to a satisfied
customer.
Note** This procedure does not affect the case
hardening. It only restores the color.

A few things of note; I also tried Brownell's Oxpho blue & found it worked same as 44-40. I do not recall the brand of Acrylic I used but don't recall Koloid being available where I purchased mine. Also note that though a "Torch" is listed as a heat source, it is used to heat the part to an overall temp of only about 160°F, not enough to bring about any change of color, not even the faintest straw or yellow, much less blue. No concentration of heat is applied to bring about a color change in the metal (A simple propane torch is suffecient heat for the job). Outside of a genuine bone/charcoal case-hardening by knowledgable professional, this is the only procedure I am currently aware of to produce a semblance of case colors with no damage to existing heat-treatment.
Miller
PS; this is applicable to guns other than Perazzi's and can be simply polished off should you decide to go with another finish later.
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#943 - 09/12/06 05:46 PM Re: Faux Case Color
devrep Offline
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Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 371
Loc: Florida
A good electric heat gun will get you there and heats a large area at one time.

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#944 - 09/12/06 06:51 PM Re: Faux Case Color
CTroy Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 132
Loc: Belle Vernon PA
This is less slippery (sneaky connotation) than the "water colors" but slippery nontheless. I can not bring myself to be a sneak. Pretty cool though. Guess it's one more thing to be on the watch for when considering a purchase. Glad I was informed. I'll have no excuse if I'm hornswoggled.

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#945 - 09/12/06 08:26 PM Re: Faux Case Color
I. Flues Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 327
Loc: Parma, OH
I have a beater Flues that has no case color left whatsoever. I'm not trying to "misrepresent" the condition of my gun but I also don't want to bother with Ohio Case Color and possibly warp parts that do not need to be hardened again. Thanks for the info.

Mike Doerner

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#946 - 09/12/06 10:28 PM Re: Faux Case Color
ken clark Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 91
Loc: NH
Sure, but might as well use a torch or the water colors, a good acrylic spray will hold the colors long enough to sell it.(/sarcasm)

Oscar stated annealing the action makes it easier to clean up. That means it will need to be re-casehardened and NO company can completely guarantee there will be no warping so why pick on Ohio Case Color Co.?

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#947 - 09/13/06 12:09 AM Re: Faux Case Color
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
As the wise man Solomon said "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven"
There is thus a place for a true bone/charcoal case hardening & there is a place for this. There are guns which can be dressed up which simply don't rate the expence of a professional case hardening.
There is however "Absolutely" no time, place or purpose for sticking the hot tip of an accetylene torch to a gun frame & holding it there to produce spots & streaks of varying colors & tempering out the hardness put there by the makers. There is no metalurgical problems with this method, only asthetics, Everyone can be their own judge as to where it is applicable. :p
Miller
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#948 - 09/13/06 12:17 AM Re: Faux Case Color
CraigF Offline
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Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 853
Loc: SW , PA
My wife's electric range's oven has a minimum setting of 170 degrees, just about perfect for warming parts.
Colored my old Husqvarna double, it had been worn to bright. Playing with 44/40 I was able to color it to my liking... a splotchy blueish/brown mostly.
Total investment: 1 bottle of 44/40.
Craig
_________________________
Ask not for whom the dog barks, it barks for thee...
NRA Life Member

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#949 - 09/13/06 03:44 AM Re: Faux Case Color
outdoorlvr Offline
Member
***

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 1231
Loc: Channel Islands Harbor/Oxnard,...
I've used a cooking thermometer in an oven to regulate heat in the area of 160-degrees. Per Craig's comment, such an oven set-up should provide a straight foward way to uniformly heat parts.

For Craig - - did you apply any form of protective coating? If so, how are the colors holding up? (Not that we should expect colors to last as well as bone/charcoal achieved colors.)

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#950 - 09/13/06 08:05 AM Re: Faux Case Color
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
The oven idea seems far better than using a torch. Thanks for the input Craig. I just made the post direct as listed by Ithaca, just remember, if one tries this & does use a torch you do not use a concentrated heat nor heat anywhere close to getting a color change, just slowly warm it up.
Miller
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#951 - 09/13/06 10:52 AM Re: Faux Case Color
rabbit Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 6812
Loc: Marshallton DE
Not an expert but I'm guessing that those who are obsessed with unworn expanses of makeup will eventually be tricked by the painted lady one way of the other. Since I am the infamous dabbler in water color color, I'll say that the experiment was a failure--far to opaque and garish. I was told by an art restorer and inpainter that a presentable facsimile might be produced with analine dye or thinned acrylic. I also did Miller's Perazzi fix to the same Fox action bar in the oven for a few minutes and the swabbed Oxpho. When I sold the old relic, it had been scrubbed clean and had the characteristic sheen of chrome-steel. Careful you all don't bump into somebody else up there on the moral high ground. The occupancy level may be higher than you care to imagine.

jack

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#952 - 09/13/06 12:22 PM Re: Faux Case Color
John Mann Offline
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***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 5257
Loc: Mountains of New Hampshire
I can remember, long ago, one morning that my late bride had just finished removing some sort of goop from her face. It had successfully removed all the base, blush, other sundry materials that made her visage as lovely at it usually was. As much as I loved that wonderful woman, I was later delighted to see that she had brought up to standard her appearance.
I knew that she was beautiful without, but now the world could see that she was lovely, in appearance, as well.
Best,
John
_________________________
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.

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#953 - 09/13/06 02:30 PM Re: Faux Case Color
outdoorlvr Offline
Member
***

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 1231
Loc: Channel Islands Harbor/Oxnard,...
What's the harm in this process if misrepresentation to others is not the intent? As it has been described, it seems about like using cold blue to darken a shiny area or temper a scratch on the old Elsie. This process seems like just another little method we have to accomplish a certain result on a certain gun.

I, for one, would like to see what Mike might develop with his beater Flues. It would be interesting also to learn whether starting with bright metal is preferred to starting with metal retaining some CC, whether 44/40 and Oxpro Blue yield the best results, or whether there's something else out there that might even be better, and, last, how well lacquer or some other clear coating might give the color staying power.

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#954 - 09/13/06 02:52 PM Re: Faux Case Color
tudorturtle Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 1583
Loc: NY
ODL,
For clearcoating, I'm going to give Brownells Metal-Coat Epoxy a test on piece of plain steel.

I'll give the P-gun cosmetics a try first on the steel plate first.

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#955 - 09/13/06 02:53 PM Re: Faux Case Color
tudorturtle Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 1583
Loc: NY
ODL,
For clearcoating, I'm going to give Brownells Metal-Coat Epoxy a test on piece of plain steel.

With the above info I'll give the P-gun cosmetics a try on that steel plate first.

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#956 - 09/13/06 06:15 PM Re: Faux Case Color
I. Flues Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 327
Loc: Parma, OH
Quote:
Originally posted by ken clark:
Sure, but might as well use a torch or the water colors, a good acrylic spray will hold the colors long enough to sell it.(/sarcasm)

Oscar stated annealing the action makes it easier to clean up. That means it will need to be re-casehardened and NO company can completely guarantee there will be no warping so why pick on Ohio Case Color Co.?
I wasn't picking on Ohio Case Color. I simply stated that I didn't want to spend $130 on a case hardening that wasn't needed.

You're right in that no company can guarantee distortion, but since Ohio Case Color would be the company I would send my reciever to if it needed case hardening, that is why they were mentioned.

Mike Doerner

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#957 - 09/13/06 06:17 PM Re: Faux Case Color
I. Flues Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 327
Loc: Parma, OH
Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF:
My wife's electric range's oven has a minimum setting of 170 degrees, just about perfect for warming parts.
Colored my old Husqvarna double, it had been worn to bright. Playing with 44/40 I was able to color it to my liking... a splotchy blueish/brown mostly.
Total investment: 1 bottle of 44/40.
Craig
I too am interested in the results of your experiment. Any pictures?

Mike Doerner

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#958 - 09/13/06 07:28 PM Re: Faux Case Color
dubbletrubble Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/09/06
Posts: 1082
Loc: Valhalla, PA
You could add some plum brown to this process also for a variation in color.

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#959 - 09/13/06 08:10 PM Re: Faux Case Color
David Williamson Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 3478
Loc: Eastern Pa
2-piper, thanks for the information on the case-coloring. As we had talked about case-hardening in another post, this will do nicely for what we were talking about.
It seems that some of the people here think that this is not an ethical thing to do. Like anything else, if you are trying to deceive someone by selling the firearm refinished, then yes it is deceitful. For your own personnel enjoyment then I think it is great, especially if you did it yourself.
I wonder how many people out there have bought what they think is an untouched gun, probably quite a few. You just don't find that many 80+ year old guns in pristine condition that the little old lady used only on weekends.
_________________________
David


ADVICE TO DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS & LEFTIES:
WHEN YOUR HORSE DIES, ITS TIME TO DISMOUNT (anonymous)



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#960 - 09/13/06 09:54 PM Re: Faux Case Color
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
JDW;
Reminds me at a gun show once long ago I was admiring a displayer's grand collection of Lefevers. He proudly told me every gun on his table was all original & right there in the midst of them was one with a "joint" in the bbls about 3" ahead of the breech. Obviously a sleeve job. I never knew if he honestly didn't know or thought I was so dumb I didn't know, (they were listed display only) so I just looked them all over & strolled on.
Miller
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#961 - 09/14/06 01:46 AM Re: Faux Case Color
ken clark Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 91
Loc: NH
No offense Mike they have done very good jobs for me in the past.

If you go to the extent to hand polish the action the money is well spent.

The torch or water color will not do any firearm or the worker justis. When you do not want it to be done in a proper manor IMHO it is better to leave it as found making the gun to shoot.

On another note Great to see you posting John Mann, my offer stands for lunch when ever you want as it will be a great pleasure to me!

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