doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Purdey Puzzle

I purchased (from Stephen Cobb) a Purdey Sixteen Chamber Thirteen bore hammer gun. Serials out to 1847.

Here is a link to Stephen Cobbs webpage describing the gun:
http://stevecobbguns.com/englishsg.htm

During the purchase process we exchanged several emails and he had changed him mind and concluded that it wasn't a converted muzzleloader.

The gun has rust blued Damscus barrels. The name on the barrel rib has been mostly finished out but "J. Purdey ????? ?????? ???? ??? London" is visible. The barrels are 28" long and the tubes touch at the muzzle. There is a wide swamped rib. The barrel weighs 3lbs 6oz. The bore diameters are 0.709", the gun is choked 0.003", the chambers are 2-1/2" long, the chamber diameters are 0.740" and 0.750". The minimum wall thickness is 0.032". The gun weighs 7lbs 2oz. I think there may be a weight in the stock. It has the W&C Scott lever and the Purdey double underbite. It says "Purdey" on the locks.

Here are pictures:

























This is a picture of the steel butt plate wrapping up on the comb.













Here is a link to my photobucket - there are several more pictures there that I didn't post here.
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/AmarilloMike/PurdeySixteenHammergun/?start=all

What have I got and how did it get that way?

Best,

Mike

Mike:

Just from a numbers perspective, it is a 13 bore(0.710") proved(Londong) during the period of 1887-1904 and then reproved post 1954(Birmingham) due to boring, polishing, wear or some change to 0.700. At the time a whole number was desired over one of the "vulgar fractions"(13/1, etc.). And with the steel tubes & metal butt plate, it was not a conversion?

Anyone have any info on the number of Purdey & Sons reproof in Birmingham, or is that sacrilege?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey: Did you get your C&H rifle back from Jim? How did it turn out?

Best Regards, George

It's a conversion. The serial # is way too early for a breechloader - pin or centerfire.It doesn't look like it was done by Purdey, either. Did you email them the serial #?

The first Purdey centerfire breechloaders were around 7100 or so. I think pinfires were around 6800+.

I think the bbls on your's have a shoe lump on them. The flats & lumps were welded onto the bbls because muzzleloaders didn't have either one.

OWD

The Purdey book by Donald Dallas says manufacture date of 1847. I forgot to post that. Someone told me that in a conversion all they reused was the barrels. Surely they reused the locks? And the stock?

So in the conversion was the gun was designed to shoot a thin wall brass shell? If you subtract the chamber diamter and from the bore diameter and divide by 2 the cartridge wall thickness comes out to about 0.015".

The tubes are Damascus.

Best,

Mike

So if it was made as a muzzleloader in 1847 then it seems likely that it was converted between 1887 and 1904.

Can yall pick out any proofmarks from 1847?

Thanks Raimey
Thanks OWD

Best,

Mike

I think it was designed for a paper shell. It was converted into the a paper shell era, right?

When they converted it, they used the bbls, wood, locks, fences, and probably the hammers. They built the action, toplever, bold, etc, and added the flat/lumps to the bbls. An amazing amount of work, really.

I can see a the remains of a some London proofs on the water table and it looks like there's some on the bbls. There may have been more that the shoe lump covered up.

Beautiful wood, BTW.

OWD

Why would they convert it with a sixteen chamber and a thirteen bore. There was a post on a thread last week saying that guns chambered for thin brass shells were "overbored".

Thanks OWD

Best

Mike

Mike:


The only reason I would guess the 1887 on period was that I assumed it had steel tubes but it doesn't have the "12C" in a rhombus. Just by the marks on the Damascus tubes, I would again guess 1855-1875 which would include the 1867 Purdey bolt date as well as the 1865 Scott Spindle date and steel butt plates were used then. But it doesn't have those large all or nothing firing pins w/ the percussion fences. If from around 1870 it may not be a conversion? What type forend does it have?

13 bore just happen to be the plug gauge that went the entire length.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I guess they could have gone 12g or 16g, right?

Maybe there wasn't enough there for a 12g chamber, so they went with the 16g, even though the bores were 13.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure.

So you have a 16g gun that is real big in the bores. I wonder what kind of patterns it will throw.

OWD