doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Presidential candidate supports INDIVIDUAL RKBA

I do and it fits to my expectations of how much that part of my compensation is worth.

In Canada, it's usually sometime in June when we start paying ourselves, I think.

Jake I am one of the dirty unwashed..... being uninsured. I was between COBRA and obtaining a private policy .... I was asked to wait until after the Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years holidays. Well, low and behold, before my appointment, I had a heart attack. Not just any heart attack, but a 99% blockage of what they referred to as "the widowmaker". I died, literally, on the gurney between the ER and the CCU and had to be jump started. (What happened during that time is another story best left for a more private venue)

They had a chopper coming for me and ended up in a mobile intensive care unit that took me to the regional trauma center. Was in CICU for a few days, until I stabilized enough to have emergency multiple by-pass surgery. I was in either the CICU,ER and Recovery Room for a total of 16 days, plus two in a regular room

Afterwards there were some fairly serious complications that had to be dealt with along with all the follow-ups, re-hab, etc over a period of months following "the event"

I was 44.

I won't divulge the actual amounts, but let's just say that it was well over a crap load of money between the surgeons, cardiologists, ER, Labs, ER again (complications remember?),Radiology, respiratory therapy, Pharmacy, Private nursing, emergency transportation, on and on and on and on and on. One injection, JUST one, was $5,700 (not a typo, Five thousand, seven hundred US Dollars) for the drug alone, not even including the syringe!!!!

My wife and I negotiated, and negotiated some more. Then, started writing checks. Took out a mortgageg on our previously paid for house and maxed out a Credit card ot three. The neighborhood where I live took a collection, people brought food and more good whishes and prayers than I deserve. I am still paying and still not able to purchase a private plan unless I want to pay over $3000 per month. Did I moan and groan or bitch? HELL NO!

We did it. Do I bitch and complain because the COUNTRY let me down? Hell No. It WAS MY FAULT that I did not have Insurance, no one else's. I fully accept the responsibility for my actions, in this case, inactions.

I am, by the Grace of God, alive and Damned Proud to be an American. No one in my family is in the med business, but I am a free market capitalist..... period. Our country was founded on these principles where people pulled themselves up by their boot straps when there was adversity and did not look to the government to bail them out. Call me a throw back..... But I also remember when I was a boy hearing JFK say, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

Hard work, not sitting on my ass eating cheetos with my hand out is paying my bills as well as paying for my sanity, nothing else. I never inherited a dime from my parents, matter of fact had to pitch in and pay for their funerals. Grew up as a tentant on a dairy farm, worked my ass off since I was 11. Joined the US Army out of High School, ended up as a Ranger in some precarious situations where we never existed, walked the border between the East German and Czech borders for nearly 4 years, all in one stint by the way. had an armored vehicle blown out from under me because of piss poor parts in a heater .... No money for heaters, but enough to pay for the three guys that died in that explosion.

Nope, I am just a poor, old, uneducated country boy that worked for every single penny I have and will continue to do so until the day I die.

King, I think we disagree on history. Of course we occupied Japan as a result of WWII, and that's worked out pretty well. Maybe you could throw South Korea in there too, post-WWII, and that also worked well. We occupied the Philippines for 40-odd years, ending just after WWII, then helped them fight a Communist insurgency in the 50's. Turned out OK. And for those that say you can't impose democracy through force . . . was either Germany or Japan democratic before we occupied them?

Mark, there are even some pretty smart Democrats--former senator Bob Kerrey among them, and there's a guy with good credentials on terrorism as a member of the 9/11 Commission--who believe that an overly precipitous withdrawal from Iraq would have very negative consequences. It's not quite like leaving Vietnam, because there was not much danger that the NVA was going to attack us at home. The terrorists already have, and regardless of the fact that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, we're dealing with the same kind of Islamist radicals in Iraq--including Al Qaeda--as attacked us on 9/11. We turned tail in Somalia, did virtually nothing following the attacks on our embassies in Africa. That emboldened the terrorists. Abandoning Iraq too soon would be even worse. As for bombing Iran, you skipped right over the details: only if we know for certain they're actively working on nukes. This is a country that, without question, sponsors terrorism (as in Hezbollah). This is a country that has promised to destroy Israel. Unlike the case of North Korea, with whom we can bargain to get them to shut down their nuke factory, we don't have anything Iran wants or needs. Although it's something I'd rather see us avoid, force may be the only option if they start making nukes.

I'm surprised to find I'm actually enjoying this conversation.

So, let me get this straight. Lining up to cash social security checks, using public roads, schools, and all the other benefits of a liberal society is ok, but having our government, that we give our lives and treasure for, help us with staying healthy and productive members of society is bad? I'm impressed with Steve's moral fortitude in his above referenced health struggle (and God bless you Steve, for pulling through and being here - we're glad you made it!), but would it have been so awful if he didn't have to mortgage his house and max out his credit cards just so he can have medical care?

I don't have health insurance either, being partially self employed as I am. The penalty for that is not having health insurance. Could I afford a catastrophic policy with a $10k deductible to mitigate against disasters described above? Yes, if I go without some other basic necessities of life. But even that is no guarantee, because the way it is set up now, health care providers stay in business by denying coverage. I've seen people with $600/mo health insurance still have to pay $100k for cancer care.

I just think it's a very warped sense of priorities when we can spend literally trillions on a war that has resulted in the deaths of upwards of a million people, but helping our own people is somehow evil and marxist. What the @#$@~~!! is that?

Larry, I don't think we disagree on history. Without checking my post, I think I said attempted occupations of non-western countries since the Second World War had ended in failure. Wasn't Korea a draw?

An interesting POV, referring to assymetric warfare, is "War no longer exists." General Sir Rupert Smith, commander of UK Armoured Division in 1991 Gulf War, commander of UN forces in Bosnia in 1995, and deputy NATO supreme commander in the Kosovo campaign, sets this out in his book Utility of Force.

Smith goes beyond Mao's notions of guerilla theorists (fish swimming among the people), claiming we've moved from interstate industrial war to war among the people. People are active protagonists whom both sides seek to influence; military force is rarely the deciding factor.

Winning hearts and minds is not subordinate but the chief purpose for which force is used. Kandahar chieftains and elders today debated a draft manifesto dissenting with Canadian "foreign occupiers" causing too much misery and civilian deaths---and supporting the popular idea that Taliban fighters must be called into the talks.

Seems a convincing endorsement of Smith's premise to me.

Regards, King

Let me get this straight -through sacrifice you could buy catastrophic insurance, but you would rather have the Taxpayers buy it for you - via force of law ?

Also - better check your math on the 1 Million dead in A-Stan & Iraq.

Steve,
You have your pride and self respect and my admiration. Taking care of ones self is hard and takes sacrifice. I walked your path in health at 48 and still believe in personal responsibility and scrifice. I find many of my Montana friend feel the same and they are proud of taking care of them selves and working darn hard to do it. Its nice to know there are others with the same values.
Best,
Ron

Postoak, I think health care is a fundamental human right, not a privelege. How it's paid for is open for negotiation. Since we pay dearly for a government that [supposedly] works for our best interests, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect something in return.

As for my math, recent independent estimates I have read stated total Iraqi deaths in the 600,000 to 1 million range, not counting the millions that have also been displaced.

Steve, I have edited just slightly above for brevity. But, I must say that is a spectacular answer. My hat is off to you. You are what you are and do what you say. Fortunately, I have never been faced with anything like that.

But, what I fail to see is why this makes America better. Why should health care break someone and take their retirement? As has been discussed above, we collectively pay for education and many other things. Why should Americans not have the collective security of good cheap health care. Why should we spend more as a country for health care and get a worse and more expensive product?

I am cutting and pasting a story from Canada from the TS forum where this discussion is also a common topic. I expect the poster will not mind:

"I live in Vancouver, BC. On January 14 my wife gave birth to our twin boys, Andrew and Brennan. At 18 weeks into her pregnancy, Brennan was diagnosed with a congenital diaphragmatic hernia. The odds of survival at birth were approx. 55% in a singleton pregnancy and these odds were cut in half again in the case of a multiple pregnancy.

Long story short, my wife carried the babies to full term (38 weeks which is considered full term for twins) and Brennan is still in neonatal intensive care. During the counseling we received, we were told that best case scenario, Brennan would remain in NICU for 3 to 4 months before being well enough to go home. As of yesterday, the doctors were thinking that he may be able to go home next week! A full 6 weeks early.

From the time that we found out about the condition until now, my wife and I figure that there have been over 100 health care professionals directly involved in our care - there were 18 doctors and nurses in the delivery room alone! We have received the best of care and can honestly say we never had to wait for anything or felt that we were receiving anything less than the best of care.

Beside Brennan's crib is another baby from Fort St. John (way up in Northern BC). He was born 11 weeks early and weighed less than 2 lbs. He was medi-vac'ed to Vancouver and is doing well, but still has a long road ahead of him. The parents are staying at Easter Seal house and are coping. They have been receiving the same quality of care that we have and are as grateful as we are for our health care system. The father of this baby is a heavy truck mechanic and is just making ends meet.

Yes our health care system is not perfect, but I certainly can't complain about it one bit. "

I think this is a much better societal (and personal) outcome than your struggle. Why is this a bad thing?

Jake