doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CUSTOMS NIGHTMARE!

I purchased a few guns last summer at auction in the UK. It took a while to collect them & get them shipped (some went to Athens, Greece for some unknown reason before being returned to the UK), but they finally arrived at US Customs in Charlotte, NC in September. I received them all save one within a few days. It seems that somehow in all the paperwork on that one two numbers of the serial number were transposed on the import permit:XXX12 instead of XXX21. The customs official said that a new import permit must be obtained and sent to the shipper in the UK. When I contacted BATF they said "not so" that it was just a scrivener's error & a new permit wasn't necessary. Apparently a power struggle then ensued between BATF & U.S. Customs, Charlotte. British Customs apparently had no problem with the gun or it's serial number. (Keep in mind, this was not a machine gun or an anti-tank weapon that I was importing but a 100 year old sporting gun).

Long story short, (or it's too late now to be brief) the gun cleared customs today without a new permit. Now the bonded warehouse (which so happems to occupy the same space as Charlotte Customs) wants $1,500.00 for storage before the gun can be released to the shipper to bring it the 100 miles to me. Keeping in mind that this is a mid-grade 100 year old English SxS (many English guns of this vintage don't even have serial numbers) it seems that "Something is rotten in Denmark" & it ain't the cheese. So it looks like they want me to pay $1,500 for a $1,500 gun that I have already paid $1,500 for. Does anybody smell a rat here? Doesn't $1,500 seem a little much to store one shotgun for a few months? Don't buy a gun in the UK unless through someone like Dig & if you do please demand that it not go to Charlotte.

Best Regards, George

George this is one of the few things a lawyer is good for. I'd get one ASAP.

I got caught sideways in ‘the system’ bringing Caterpillar earthmoving equipment from England through the Port Elizabeth dock in New Jersey so I speak with a little experience.

In my humble opinion - hiring an attorney will only double your cost basis in that firearm. You will find a solution to the Israeli Palestine crisis faster than you will resolve your storage tab issue. Let us know the outcome - good luck.

I buy only local - will take a little less, for less fret factor!

George, you should have just gotten the new import permit. Waiting is not a good idea for bonded storage goods. At some point, you'll have to decide how much it is worth to get that particular gun. Have you investigated what happens if you don't pay? Have you determined who is responsible for the transposition error?

George:

I have both those same problems, not for for a long time. The bonded warehouse rips you off, but never that high. George, give me a personal phone call sometime as I will tell you how to get around it.



John Boyd

George,

There are some acceptable sources for documenting an older gun as "antique" and thereby bypassing the importation hassles. It does take some research and the burden is on you. Most UK dealers don't go through the trouble as it is not necessary for them as the guns are leaving the country.
I have been collecting books that help date guns as US defined antiques per the GCA of 1968. I photo copy the pages from the book and keep it with the guns when bringing them into the US.
Is it possible that the gun you are trying to get in can be proved as an antique? If that is the case, customs may just let it go.
The most common proving mark was the "not for ball" mark which was dropped in the 1880s
"Nitro Proof" in the UK was optional starting in 1896 and was mandatory in 1905. So the absence of "Nitro Proof" alone can put the gun into the correct age, but cannot rule out the 1900-1905 "modern" gun period. You would need something else.
Most guns have seen the proof house more than once. Check the gun for the oldest proofs. Nigel Browns books are the best for pinpointing English proof dates.
The French passed a standardized proof law in July 1897. Those marking rules are still used today. The lack of the post-1897 standardized marking makes the gun a US antique. The book with that information is out of print. I got my copy from eBay.
The patent marks are good for 14 years in the UK. So if you can find a patent mark from say 1873, it would only be required until 1887. Nigel Browns books have a good listing of patent numbers/dates.
The name and address on the gun can date the gun as well. Boothroyds and Nigel Brown have good documentation.
Last but not least, serial numbers or a makers letter.

If you post some details about the gun, I'll check the books.

Joe in Charlotte

Montana & John: I asked BATF about a new permit early on & they said I didn't need one. The agent that I spoke to called the Customs agent & they apparently got into a power struggle. I'm going to contact the bonded warehouse & attempt to get them to be reasonable. If that doesn't work I guess I'll drive the 100 miles and eyeball those involved. Why does everything that has to do with the Federal Government have to be so complicated and the people so obtuse?

Best Regards, George

How about this one:

A friend, lecturing in Atlanta, stows his computer in his luggage and leaves for his home in Canada. No sign of his baggage at his destination. No record of it leaving Atlanta. Several days of "tracking" by Air Canada turns up nothing. The airline asks for a description of the bag. He describes it. And the contents, sir?

"Well, there's a computer in a plastic sleeve," my friend said. "Oh, please, sir, stop right there," said the airline's tracking office in Mumbai. "Don't say anything. We are not alllowed to say what happened to your computer." It finally showed up scuffed and scratched as if it had been on long CIA assembly line.

My friend, an authority on Middle East culture, works with the military and overseas community development.

Most of your problem is similar to that which anyone traveling out of and returning to the US with a gun faces. TSA governs travelers entering the transportation system. Their rules are far different than US Customs which regulates persons bringing items into the country. TSA is looking for threats to security let's say while Customs might be looking for stolen guns. A serial number is going to matter a lot more to Customs for their purposes than to ATF for theirs. The agencies are not working in tandem.