doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com .577 BPE Adams

My attempt to find a load that will regulate in my Adams is not going well. I have tried many different load/powders with paper patched 560gr lead bullets. It's still shooting 8" apart at 50yds. I would like to try the Woodleigh 650 jacketed bullets. I have some that are marked Woodleigh 650 grain BPE. The rifle has damascus barrels. My question to those with more knowledge than me is: will the jacketed bullets harm the softer damsacus rifling?

I think you need more velocity to bring the point of impact together,perhaps your rifle was made for lighter bullets.Jacketed bullets make me nervous,if the jackets are soft copper they should be ok.What size is your bore?

Mike, I have used thin jacket bullets in many damascus rifles with no discernable problems. I find most rifles are easier to regulate with jacketed bullets, and they seem to shoot very well in Henry rifled barrels. I have put hundreds of Woodleigh 650 gr BPE bullets through my Ca. 1895 steel barreled Gibbs double at 1850 fps. After years of messing with paperpatch, hard lead, soft lead, 3031, black powder, etc; Graham Wright's nitro for black load[Shooting the British Double Rifle] put the 650 gr. Woodleighs in the same hole at 50 yards. When was your Adams made? I believe that there was a 520 gr load used in the 1870's. Are you using black or smokeless? Most express rifles are easier to regulate with 4198 than black, and the presures are lower.
All the best, Mal

Mal I'm using 4198. My guess on the age is about 1880 or so. Back action hammer locks with half cock locks.

If you use nitro-for-black 4198, why d'you use paper patched bullets still? Switch to hard lead allow bullets 520-560gr and increase powder charge untill both barrels will shoot in one point. That's easy. R.Glenz is right, velocity is not enough yet.
You don't need jacketed bullets.

I'm using hawk jacketed bullets in my Henry....I pulled the last shot, still a 2&1/4" group at 50yards.

SKB what weight bullets and steel or damascus barrels? Do you have a website for hawk bullets?

Geno, with lead bullets one uses paper patches, hard lead etc. when velocities reach 1600 fps or so to keep the lead from soldering itself to the inside of the barrel. Accuracy falls off very rapidly once there is just a bit of lead fouling in the bore. During the late 19th century, riflemakers tried many methods of reducing this problem; different rifling systems, grease wads, multi grooved bullets, and paper patches. all had their problems. paper patched bullets and Metford rifling lasted the longest, but The ultimate fix was the cupro-nickle jacket.

Mike, I think the Woodleigh 650 is the only thin jacket .577 in town. I have shot my Alex Henry .450 damascus double at least 200 times with Hornady 350 grain half jackets with no noticeable problems. This rifle is in excellent condition, and any problems would be easily seen. Just be sure the jackets are quite thin and soft. before I try a new bullet, I section it to check thickness.
Mal

Mal, I use paper patched bullets plus grease cookies in BP loads only. For nitro-for-black loads I use hard lead bullets alone with filler (lead allow hardness ~20R) with great success.

Mal the Woodleigh is the only one that I can find. I think that I need more velocity so for now at least it's out. I have to go to a lighter bullet. Thanks.

http://www.hawkbullets.com/maintest.htm

here you go Mike, they have .585 diameter bullets as lite as 560grs.
Steve

Steve I've tried the 560's. They shoot 8inches apart at 50yds. I need something like 520's. Thanks.

Mike,
they do custom runs with a 3 box order.
Steve

Mike:

What kind of velocity did you get from the 560s? I assume you know. If you don't, you're poking around in the dark.

Eight inches wide at 50 is a lot. If the vel of the 560s was reasonably close to the ballpark, yeah, you obviously need a lighter bullet. You might not be able to go light enough to cure it either. I ran into two in a row that shot 6 to 8 inches wide at 50, and I couldn't drive even much lighter bullets fast enough at sane pressures to cure it. Both had to be re-regulated.

Hawk will make a custom order with thin jackets that I don't think will harm the barrels. Might be worth a try.

I believe you have to add 4-5gr of 4198 to put both bullets 560gr in one point. I got the same with 520gr bullets. First try - about 20" apart at 50 meters. Added 5gr - 8" apart. More 5gr - Bingo!
But I use Finnish VV powder #120, which is allmost the same burning rate as 4198.

Geno I was up to 67grains already. No signs of high pressure but I don't want to push it. I want to try the 520s first.

Post deleted by Mike Harrell

As I remember correctly I use 67-68gr of VV #120. Are you sure filler and density of loading is o'key?