doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester M21

Bob, thanks for the A&F info. The low price Model 21 prices in ads in my collection were from Hudson Sporting Goods and Sloans. I can't remember what years but it was before the war. Murphy

Cannot prove or disprove, but one book I have on Winchester states the M 21 was a great help in getting Winchester through the depression. It was a gun which the few people having funds would buy. Whether or not they made any money on them is really immaterial, the choice to build them was totally their's. Returns could have come in various ways. Money paid to NBC, CBS, ABC, EtAl does not return one thin dime "Directly", but do you know of a Company that doesn't advertise, & they expect it to "PayOff". Regardless of how much Mr olin "Loved" the 21, I seriously doubt he considered jeapordizing the Co to keep it in production. According to one account I read they "Suddenly Discovered" after some 25± years that if they charged it it's fair amount of overhead it had lost money. Funny thing was they immediately approximately tripled the price, but don't recall reading of the accounting department getting the Ax. Marlakey such as that I simply don't concern myself about.

Miller, over the years, you have been level headed about most things. However, it seems that any time a the Model 21 was brought up, you slip down to a lower level and have nothing very good to say. Just what did John Olin, Winchester, the Model 21 or folks who like them do to you?

The Model 21 is just an American icon - in the great big world of guns, it's a UFO!

Pay attention everyone, the village idiot speaks!

Hey ole pokie, they're collectible - aren't they?

Like I said 2-piper, Olin didn't jeapardize the company when he was losing money on the 21. He was making millions on the other Winchester/Olin products. But he knew what many of us today know- it was the only shotgun that the good Lord put his whole heart and soul into. So losing a bit of money on the 21 didn't bother John Olin at all. It was only a drop in the bucket to him.

Don, I don't understand your opinion of Miller dropping to a lower level because he allegedly has a different view from yours or mine. The board has no value with a membership of me-toos. What gives the board its distinction is its extraordinary breadth of experience and views. I think the M21 deserves the acclaim of thousands of discriminating gunners and collectors but it is only a serviceable, strong gun to me. The board has no arbiter relegating dissenters to a bush league.

Don;
When the town of Tombstone AZ was booming they had two newspapers. When they had a little shoot-out down at the OK Corral one paper extoled the virtues of the "Earps", the other that of the "Cowboys". I just think we need opposing views. I have been told that because the 21 doesn't happen to be my favorite gun I'm just jealous of all those who own them because obviously the 21 is "SO GOOD" everybody Has to want one etc, etc. I just wonder how many who extoll this lost money bit are CPA's & have Audited Winchester's Books. Winchester built it, Winchester priced it & Winchester sold it. "IF" they indeed lost money on "Everyone" they sold it was their wish to continue it. If on the other hand they calculated it brought them prestige & enhanced the sale of other guns, it was likely some of their "Cheapest" advertizing. Personally though I simply had never heard of this "Lost Money" bit until they decided to drop it as a production gun & make it a product of the Custom Shop. Even then the statement I saw was it only lost money due to not being assigned it's proper share of overhead. What's the old saying, you can fool all of the people some of the time & some of the people all of the time. Well this just smacks to me as being more Ploy than Fact. But what do I know, I was a machinist, not an accountant.
I love my Lefever shotguns, but I simply don't get as arrogant about them as the average 21 owner. The 21 is a strong shotgun due to being built of alloy steels, rather than case hardened mild carbon steel. There are many guns of superior design to it.
Jimmy; One simply has to wonder just how you have any idea at all as to what shotgun God would prefer or "IF" he even cares for them at all. My main goal in life is to try to lift myself up toward God's level, not pull him down to mine.

The M-21 is a great gun. If you don't agree, fine, there are many other avenues for you to you to consider. I happen to like Ithaca NIDS. I DON'T consider them BU as a few posters seem to delight in. I sure don't understand the negitave attact mode some here seem to enjoy! If you think us stupid, fine, Please leave us alone.