doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester M21

Sorry for using this thread to try and post my first photo. But since we are talking about M21s, I'll try to leave a picture or two of Ser. No. 363X that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Another reason date of manufacture can have some relevance in M21s', Cherry Bomb, has to do with wood quality/color/figure....at least according to Ned Schwing, author of the M21 book. He stated therein (pg. 101) that pre-war guns had their walnut sourced from older black walnut trees out of Missouri as opposed to many of the later post-war (1950's) guns.

A big generalization on his part, perhaps, but he claimed it to be darker overall than some of the lumber Winchester later used. This pretty much bears out when looking at pictures of some of the early pre-war guns in his book. Not all, but in some. This 1936 gun was refinished by myself some years ago when replacing the recoil pad, and I can vouch that no stain was used to darken it......just Pilkington's clear oil.

The frame is roll stamped as a 'Trap Grade' - yet still with factory field dimensions according to Cody letter - that was special ordered by Abercrombie & Fitch in 1936. The LOM case shown came from the estate of the late Ed Zern, humorist and fishing writer for Field & Stream more years ago than I wish to remember.

Hope the photos work!!??

Robert

Robert,

That is a great looking Model 21.

"Trap Grade" did not mean trap gun. The "Trap Grade" could be had in any gauge, barrel length, choke or stock type. (Read pages 85-87 in Schwing's book).

Robert,

I recently finished photographing and indexing the sales records of the Winchester model 21's sold by A&F in 1936. There was only one listed that had a 4 digit serial number beginning 363. It is listed as a Trap grade ejector with 30 inch bbls, weighing 8 lbs, 1 oz (wow!) and choked IC and IM. Does that sound like yours?

Yes our curiosity is overwhelming! My 16 ga frame is dated 1931 in Schwings book and the Win museum folks letter shows shipping in 1937. My Standard has a frame dating from late 1941 and it was shipped May 1947. Evidently they kept a lot of frames around in preparation and the numbers in the books(and particularly that web site) are way off.

Don,

Thanks for the kind words on the gun. Your comment about a 'Trap' grade possessing any number of options was actually known to me prior to my post, but I didn't know if all others were aware that the grade designations had little to do with how the gun could be configured. The forearm shown was a later add-on (by me) who felt the original kidney-pattern beavertail was too much of a good thing for field or sporting clays. Still have that, too, safely stored away.

Bob,

Bingo on the number you suspect. Gun is still choked at IC & IM, 30"....no changes. Any info on who may have ordered that through A&F? E-mail me at turnstone@bitterroot.net if it's anything you can share. And my 'Thanks' for what you have shared re: your cataloging of A&F orders.

Robert

Did that Leg-0'-Mutton case once belong to the humorist Ed Zern?...Geo

Classic styling, a "Funeral" frame and wood to set it off and to top it off it says 'Winchester" on it!!!
When I was in Germany at a restaurant with my friends, the owner had this really thick Bavarian accent so much so that my buddies wife, who is German, couldn't understand him and she frequently asked him to repeat himself as he went over the menu. He had a replica lever gun over the fireplace I turned and pointed and said, "Winchester", he nodded enthusiastically and repeated "Ya Winchester"!!! That was the only English word he knew how to pronounce!!!!
Beautiful shotgun Robert absolutely beautiful!!!
All the best

'Thanks' Treblig. I know there are folks who can't say much good about M21s', but I've never been one of them. You either seem to like them or you don't.

To Geo. Newbern - That's the very same Mr. Zern, George. I remember reading him when just a kid, which pretty much dates me I'm afraid. He & Gene Hill were sort of cronies on fishing and hunting trips it seems, and he did write several funny (small format) books which are a hoot also, if you come across them.
I happened to come across the case some years ago through New England Arms, who was handling his sporting estate to some degree.

Robert

Another reason for finding out the serial number is the significance of the date it was made and shipped. One of the 21s I have is a trap grade- serial number 1975X and was shipped from Winchester on 9/12/47. The day I was born.

I have had two 21s that were shipped in 1948 and 1950 and were numbered ten thousand numbers apart, nearly a third of total prodution. Yes, they stored frames and used them in no particular order. I have owned a 21 that was shipped in 1954 and was numbered 32,4XX, a very high number.