doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Benefit of FULL choke

Most all of my shotgun hunting for more than 50 years has been with doubles with one or both barrels choked full, or full and half, or full and something more open, like cylinder or slightly tighter. I have always done well with all these guns. Sometimes I take along some scatter loads, especially for first shot on decoying ducks, quail or grouse that get up from under my feet. Lots of geese, ducks, grouse and desert quail have dropped to full choked barrels, probably lots more than to open choked barrels. The same guns were used for all birds, with suitable loads. Over decades I have found many loads that pattern well above nominal cylinder percentages from long, cylinder-bored barrels -- sometimes up to 50%.

There are a few things that lead to my extensive use of full choked barrels. One is that I am not a very fast shooter and have gotten slower and more deliberate over recent decades. Another is that shoulder injuries and degredations have lead to use of lighter and lighter guns (6,0-6,5 lbs has become common) long barreled doubles and lighter loads, so, tighter patterns are a real advantage. I have always hunted under conditions were longer shots (out to 40-45 yards) were common enough that tight, even patterns are a big plus.

My use of lighter shot loads means that it is easier to get nice even patterns from tight choked barrels -- 24 to 30 oz shot in 12 and 16 bores has become standard with me -- muzzle velocities range from 1150 fps to about 1300 fps for some hunting loads. Often these are shot loads for which these old barrels were designed. Even going to 32 oz ( 1 1/8 oz) gets more open patterns, even with shot cups, as well as thin fringes from full choke constrictions -- not to speak of the additional recoil and batterning of old guns and bum shoulders.

To me guns with two open chokes are special use guns or guns for fast shooters.

Niklas

" would say you are for the most part right about showing up with a 12g...up until recent times. Same goes for full chokes. "

I agree, I just meant in the old days....I can even recall this outlook in the 1970's as being pretty common.

There's a great passage in one of WDM Bell's (the famous elephant hunter) books about his preference for small bores rifles and the loads he used. He only liked solids, and someone had given him a stash of soft point ammo. He was using it up by sitting near a lake and shooting cormorants as they flew over. His hit ratio was quite good, and someone came up after a while and asked what kind of shotgun he had that could reach so far....

Mark,

Aside from long range waterfowl or turkey hunting, certain games, e.g., trap [DTL], bunker, helice or flyers, the best possible patterns are very desireable, so tight constrictions & high pattern percentages are the norm. Today's def of 'tight' is a bit less than yesterday's, where constriction is concerned, but remains the same for patterns.

The combination of an open pattern & a tight one in a two triggered double gun is like having the best of both worlds and they are instantly selectable. Selective single triggers are a bit less versatile, but effective for some applications.

There is a tendency to interchange choke designations with pattern percentages and view it as being absolute when they are often not.

There are all kinds of arguments that can be made for this choke or that one or for screw-in chokes or dial-a-chokes or no choke. That is what they had way back when .. none, unless it was unintentional. Cylinder bored guns with good quality ammuntion regularly retain some center density when patterned, at least that has been my observation.

I would say it depends on what you wish to do, what size shot is being used, the distances being shot, the intended target type [food or competition] and whether or not it may be taken cleanly with the combination of the aforementioned items factored in. If it results in needing a 'full' choke to get the job done effectively then there is your answer.

For best confidence when the gun is going to be used and not collected it should be to your liking. If you are missing close in birds for the bag because of the pattern being too small in dia. or ruining them because of the number of pellet strikes, a more open pattern is likely quite desirable. You can often accomplish that with different loads, but will not know until the gun is patterned. It is a mistake to think that opening the choke's constriction is ALWAYS going to result in more open patterns. Just my thots, perhaps something of use.

Kind regards.

My L.C. Smith field 20 gauge IC/F for grouse and early birds over decoys is no handicap for me.

Choke is a performance - this is definitional. Choke tube makers and shotgun manufacturers tend to think of choke as a constriction for self-serving, albeit sensible, reasons. Probably the worst approach is to think of choke as whatever is stamped on the barrel.

If the gun fits me, the downsides to full choke patterns for pheasants are the risk of pink mist on close shots and a diminished chance for success with an incomplete gun mount. I can get around the first with a combination of patience and inexpensive promotional loads. I can manage the second only through the discipline that comes from practice.

If I could have just one field gun for upland use it would be my pre-war solid rib M-12 16 nominally choked full (measuring .021). With B&Ps I get better than 70% patterns. Rem GLs give perfect mod patterns. Soda straw inserts bring this down to IC. I have figured out that further opening to cylinder and skeet patterns adds nothing to my scores or field success vs IC - even in grouse/WC woods. But, FWIW, Polywad spreader discs get me to somewhere between cyl and skeet patterns with this barrel.

Sam

I have to wonder who was up on the ladder holding the end of the tape while "MeLord" was shooting 4 consecutive 80-112 YD Wild Ducks with a cylinder bore using 1 1/8 oz #5 (US #6) shot. Remarkable is not a truly worthy word for such a feat, "Fantastic" would be more appropriate I believe.

Some very unlucky ducks, Miller...

I've got a wonderful old Griefelt 12 gauge with VERY thick Krupp steel barrels both choked .060, Nitro proofed 2 3/4" chambers, and I'm wondering what the heck to do with it, since I don't shoot waterfowl. I don't recall seeing barrels this thick on a shotgun. It's a finely tiny scroll engraved sidelock hammer gun with outstanding wood, a high condition gun. I really don't want to modify the chokes, since someone else might want it just as it is. Anybody out there looking for something like this?

Miller and SGJ: I'm thinking that's where the ducks landed

Sheeet Drew... if that's the case then I've killed them a quarter mile away.