doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Making a double rifle

I am not even sure what I was searching for. But happened on a website the other day. I could not believe what I was reading. So, I gave this gunsmith a call.

He has been taking sxs shotguns and converting them into double rifles. These are not elephant stoppers. But they will handle everything except the largest bears with no problems.



We chatted for a time on the phone. He sleeves the sxs and bushes the firing pin. He regulates the gun and installs iron sights. He does all this in about 60 days and charges $650.00 if you supply the shotgun.

He prefers to chamber them for either 45-70 or 45-90. Exactly how many chamberings he is willing to work with, we did not discuss. He states that 45-70 can be loaded to modern lever action pressures.

Here is his website:
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/rgs1/work.html

His name is:
Daniel Ruppelt
31049 ERS Rd.
Springfield, SD 57062
605-369-2636

Pete

Hello ,iam new to this form. I have been building double rifles for about 4 years on Baikal actions (Remington/Spartan) and am looking forward to other peoples insight.

RD, I am interested in having you build one for me. I have quite a few English doubles that would be suitable for this. I'll try and phone you tomorrow.

Casper45/Mike, I have one on gun broker (item #57676029) it is in 4570. You can go to shot gun world and click on i love my Baikal/ Spartan forumthen click on Sticky: Baikal / SPR O/U, SxS,Single shot,& Pump Picture Thread
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] there you can view some of my guns. RDShow

Peter m, From what i can see of that old hammer gun it should never be loaded with any thing but trapdoor equivalent loads. I dont know the mfg. of that gun (looks like cheap Belgn.)but the quality of the steel is in question.RDShow

Not my gun! Just a pic from his website.
How do you regulate the barrels on the guns you make?

Pete

It's amazing you can tell from a fuzzy photo that gun should not be fired except with "trapdoor" loads, and the quality of the steel is in question!! Any yet you state you build on Baikal actions?? Rather like the pot calling the kettle black!! I don't know what the gun is either, but it appears identical in every way, even to the precise shape of the hammers, to a J P Sauer hammer gun I have which has Krupp barrels. It may not be a Sauer, and may indeed be a Belgian gun. There are many, many good quality Belgian guns around in addition to the many JABC's. I don't intend to blindly defend this guy, I don't know him from Adam, but he's apparently been doing this longer than you have. It might behoove you to tread a bit more carefully here before making such blind accusations. Just my $.02 worth.

Hey, Chief, I recall getting the same treatment from lots of folks around here and much worse even when I proposed the same thing on a similar gun. Which side of that mudpile did you fall on?

Brent

I can't recall that "mudpile," sorry Brent. I suspect my view would have been consistant with the above opinion. Apparently one of the major factors in choosing a shotgun to convert into a double rifle is the original proofing of the shotgun. Those with black powder only proofs could be suspect, those with more modern Nitro proofing are more attractive for such conversions. Stronger "magnum" proofing would be a plus, although not often encountered on older guns. The Sauer I mentioned does have Nitro proofs, and could be a twin of the gun pictured. It leads me to think there is at least a possibility the gun pictured might be more suitable than Mr. Show suggests. Just a possibility, I can't identify the gun either.

Chief, Just as you cannot tell it a bad one ,i can not tell it a good one. I have been a gunsmith for 40 yrs. as for the baikal actions any one who hasany knowledge of them would know they are a well built action. Aso they are one of if not the largest arms mfg. in the world. Droppind a sleeve down a shotgun bbl. does not make a double rifle. I look at the gun and i see the fit around the locks and it looks cheap. All i am saying is the gun dont look like it will take 44,000 lbs of pressure. the bbls would if they are quality steel but have questions as to whether the action will. RdShow

A part of my post was in reply to your statement that you had been building double rifles for only four years. I will certainly agree that dropping a sleeve down a shotgun barrel does not make a double rifle. I am sure you did not interpret anything in my post that would indicate that it did. I am in full agreement that shotgun conversions to double rifles are a more complicated venture. I would not agree, however, that a Baikal is a "well built action." Stout, perhaps, but not well built. I still don't understand how you can just look at this photo and say you "have questions" whether the action will take the pressure load. If it should prove to be a Sauer, and checks out otherwise, I would have little doubt that it will. There are many Belgian guns that also would be suitable, IMO. At any rate, good luck with your business of converting Baikals to double rifles. I am pretty sure there are customers enough to go around for you and for the other smith mentioned above.

Amazing. Did no one read the link? The hammergun is a Webley & Scott. Not Belgian, not German, not cheap.

"Dropping a sleeve down a shotgun barrel does not make a double rifle." Correct, it's a shot gun. Trying to convert it to a double rifle does not result in a double rifle - it results in a geehawed shotgun.

One thing is for sure, I'd have a lot more confidence in that old Webley than I would a Baikal.
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I have always been concerned about shotguns that are converted to rifles. I have a Merkel SXS double rifle made on a 20ga size frame, when I put the stocked action (no barrels, forarm) on a scale it weighs much more than my 20 ga Merkel shotgun frame, although I have not taken either apart to look I suspect there is a lot more reinforcing on the inside of the rifle than on the shotgun.
On another note, I understand that the price of a "brand name" double rifle can be more than some people want to pay. But I have had Merkel 141's in 9.3x74R that looked new in the box for sale at $4400. When I look at the whole package (everyone knows what a Merkel is, resale, etc) I think most people would still be better off with a name brand double than a reworked Baikal (no matter how nice it is) for almost $3000. For that matter I can get a new Antonio Zoli O/U double rifle for the same money as the Baikal....am I missing something?

You're right Ken1. Most doubles start from a 20 ga rough forging but machining and heat treatment is different according to rifle pressures. Below is a pic of one of my B25's 12 ga action, besides that of my 9,3x74R double. Its evident that walls are thicker and the bottom is not hollowed out. Also, gas screws are installed to divert gas away in the event of a ruptured case.

Nothing wrong with making double rifles on shotgun actions if a few simple principles are adhered to. Sadly, in the rush to acquire a cheap double rifle, these principles are being pushed towards the 'back burner'.

OK, the hammer-gun pictured in the first post is a Webley & Scott. This is being tossed up as some kind of rationale for sufficient strength to allow safe conversion. I couldn't find any reference to the donor guns' proof, but they all look like black powder guns to me. (the Husky is Lefacheau(sp)-opened, for goodness sake!). Even if nitro proved, they are likely to be proved as game-guns rather than pigeon-guns, and even though the W&S has a Greener cross-bolt, I wouldn't have chosen it as a donor for a nitro rifle conversion over other options.

The 'rules' for selecting a shotgun action used to be:
heavy nitro proof (European heavy proof, or UK pigeon or waterfowl proof) NOT game-gun proof;
No BP proof under any circumstances;
Third fastener, preferably Greener cross-bolt;
Generally robust features, eg heavy gun with long action bar, wide breech, etc.

Of course, if the gun is properly proved with the new barrels and load, all should be well, but without delving through every page on the Ruppelt website, I couldn't see anything obvious about proof. Buyer beware.

Don't get me wrong: personally, I reckon converted shotguns are marvellous things, having owned, shot, and hunted with a converted Greener 'Empire' in .577 Light Nitro for many years now, as most of you know. Here's a link to the original story of my experiences with that gun for the new-comers: Greener .577 story
and a couple of hunting stories:
hunting story _ another hunting story

I for one like the idea of an adfordable double rifle. If it has to be re made on a shotgun frame so be it, as long as it is done right. For years we have heard and seen conversions on Ruger Red Lables, and those with some pretty hefty cartridges. If they can be made safetly in 45-70 or even upto 45-120 or such, it seems a Great idea to me...especially if it can be done under $1000 on my gun.

Theres nothing in the lower 48 states I wouldnt feel comfortable tracking with a 45-120 or a good 45-70 for that matter. Even Taylor sings the praises of gauge rifles on soft skin game. I like most of us dreamers wont be heading to Africa any time soon; but theres something about a double rifle that makes the hunt hunt better.

Now the question is what SxS do I send him........?