doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com help with a Bayard Arms side by side

2 Piper,
to qoute yourself...

"In the 1911 "ALFA" catalog is pictured a set of bbls of another brand with the short length stubs for fitting to a mono-block which are threaded. It was I felt a possibility Pieper used the same processs."

If that's the same as the August Stukenbrok catalog that shows a Record monoblock system, then I agree...because the OSH sidelocks on that gun are clearly Pieper...

I'll post a few pics so the other readers can follow...

I hope we're on the same page...

I threw in this last photo because of the Record trademark on the barrel lug...it says Record S&D...which I have always wondered if that meant Simonis & Dumoulin...before SJ&D...Simonis, Jannsen, and Dumoulin...but it's just a hunch...being that they are all subsidiaries of Pieper

notice on gun 7099 (center photo) that the locks are clearly of Pieper origin even though the gun is marked "Record"

Robert;
The Alfa catalog is that of Adolf Franks, but yes these are essentially the same exact pictures I was refering to. Actually from this it appears the tubes do not go near half way through the block though. Has been sometime since I had started to work on that project & it got shelved, as I recall I went on a massive overtime job at work & just never got back around. At the time I noted the similarities & mostly guesed if the tubes were not threaded in they would most like have had a longer section in the block for a larger solder joint.

You gentlemen are incredible! Thank you for all this information.

RC, my gun is very much like the No. 7070 above with two distinctions, the fourth fastener & simpler scroll. They must have made about a gazillion variations.

sv

2-Piper,
Things have gotten alot easier at the German patent office in the last two years...You don't need any special plug-in to access the German database (or European) just Adobe Acrobat reader that can be downloaded safely and free. Assuming that you already have it, try this...go to this link in a new tab or page..

http://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/dep...&stamp=5944

Note...the DEPATISnet servers don't interface well with the Google automatic translator...it's just easier to the DEPATIS translator for the search, then hope you read other languages for the patent as no automatic translator translates Adobe PDF files...

So go to that page, enter the German patent numbers that I listed before, when the results page opens, click on the Adobe icons and the patent opens...

afterwards go back to this search window and try your luck...plug in your favorite German gunmakers names...weed out all the US patents by adding DE in in the number prefix box then (say) Behr in the inventor box for only Behr's German patents...

Let me know if that works before I go further...the espacenet database has more complexities, but even in the short run is easier (for me) and alot more interesting to an old shotgun collector

Robert;
Yes that worked, thanks much. Unfortunately i do not read anything other than English, but could at least look at the pictures. From the pics DE 15138 1881 for bbl assembly appears to be virtually identical to US #246195, also 1881. Note this is the patent which inserts the tubes into the block from the rear thus they are full length through the breechblock. Not only the lugs, but also a section of the lower rib, the forend lug & a bbl spacer are all machined from that one block. This is the type which I believe is most generally found marked "Original Diana" & which has the step at the joint. I have not yet compared the lockwork patent with the US one & am not certain if Pieper patented his ejectors in the US or not. Again, thanks for the assistance.

More on Bayard...

Thad Scott has this "Demi-block" 3 inch magnum boxlock with cocking indicators for sale.


This gun can be found in several catalogs of the period as pictured below...





The problem is, that in most catalogs Bayards don't have the stock crossbolt that we (almost always) associate with a makeshift stock repair...yet in other catalogs this appears to be a common trait in Bayard boxlocks...