doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Damascus explained

Earlier in this thread, there was a discussion of patents related to damascus. This patent was referenced

WILLIAM ROSE of Halesowen, England
39174 - IMPROVEMENT IN THE QUALITY AND ORNAMENTATION OF METALS
Issue date: Jul 7, 1863

Robert made a comment about machine production of damascus. Here is the segment he was referring to:



Pete

I took another look at the Ethan Allen patent, 48249.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=hTIAAAAAEBAJ&dq=48249&jtp=1

It finally dawned on me that Allen is doing something very different. Figiel shows this same technique, of splitting a solid damascus cylinder, but states that it was used during the 17th century in India.

So, Allen is re-inventing this ancient technique. One that was never used in 19th century Europe. It is truly a shame that significant production was not achieved by Allen.

Pete

Earlier in the thread Daryl H made mention of "Espingarda Perfeyta" or in English "The Perfect Gun" which was 1st published in 1718.

This is the original cover. The book is written by 3 brothers who dedicate the work to King John 5th of Portugal.


Here is a plate from the book showing workman making barrels.


They describe at least 2 methods for making barrels. The first involves a twisting of metal of various gauges to form the barrel. They also describe the "Catalan" method of spiral wrapped barrels. Two men work on the same piece-the authors stress the negative effects on accuracy of working at this strenuous trade while tired-and the tools of the trade are scattered on the ground, as well as some partially finished section. Great care is emphasized to produce the strongest barrel possible to with stand very stout loads.

A couple of thoughts. 1st this is after the siege of Vienna. They make mention of procurring steel from various city states through out Europe. 2nd Portugal would have been a natural setting for this transition of technology from the Isalmic world.

Pete

"Firearms of the Islamic World: In the Tareq Rajab Museum, Kuwait" By Robert Elgood


This is prior to the siege of Vienna. So Hartmann is not making copies of captured arms. Elgood is unclear as to whether or not damascus barrels were being produced in Ferlach. Hartmann is nearly 65 years before Liege was producing damascus. Both Liege and Ferlach lost their lead in the manufacturing of firearms about the same and for the same reason, namely the Napoleonic wars. After the formation of Belgium and Independence was declared, Liege once again resumed it's old production volumes.

Pete

Pete, the illustration of the Damascus being made in Portugal is interesting . It shows the various gauges and tools used .

Daryl,

Yes it does. The brothers seem very intent on communicating the importance of those gauges. They talk about them quite a bit and went so far as to have them illustrated as you point out.

Language becomes confusing as I dig further back. They seem to use "Catalan" as their term damascus barrels. Others site this book and use Catalan to denote the locking mechanism. Certainly when referring to Eibar, Catalan is used for their (Spanish) enhanced flintlock. Actually the term Misquelet is used to describe the type of firearm being produced by some.

I am still not clear at what point the Italians come into this picture. They were certainly a player at this early stage. Just can't find enough documentation yet. There is a book, "Brescian Firearms: From Matchlock to Flintlock - A Compendium of Names, Marks & Works Together with an Attempt at Classification" by Nolfo de Carpegne that may be of some help.

I just have to be careful to not get caught up by lock development.

Pete

This may be of interest to you.
from the book "The Gunsmith's Manual" 1883

"Gun-Barrels -Best Materials for.- The barrels of the finest and best guns, either Damascus, or other steel, or iron, are formed as made in Europe and England, of scraps of iron suited to the purpose, and selected with great skill and the greatest possible care. These scraps, which are usually bought up about the country, are placed in what is called a "shaking tub"-a vessel which is violently shaken and rocked about by machinery or otherwise(depending on the particular locality)for the purpose of scouring and brightening the scraps. This done, they are carefully picked over by adepts, who cull out the unsuitable pieces. So rigid is the culling that it often happens that out of a ton of scoured scraps not more than one hundred pounds weight of them are chosen as suitable for going into the best barrels.

Among the scraps usually thought to be best are old chains that have been used for many years, the wear and rust of time having left only the best elements of the iron. The Damascus steel, which has attained to so high a reputation, got it by being manufactured out of old coach springs. Of course it is not all made of coach springs now, but it was in years ago; agents then travelled all over the country hunting and buying them up, paying a much higher price for an old broken spring than a new one would cost it's owner.

On Making Gun-Barrels.-The selected scraps to be worked into gun-barrel material are cut into small pieces and thrown into a furnace, where they are exposed to intense heat until fused,after which they are brought forth an adhering mass and placed under a hammer, which drives them together and forges them into bars. The bars are next rolled into thin plates, and then cut into strips twelve inches long and six inches wide. The very best guns are made of a combination of iron and steel. Both materials having been rolled and cut into sheets of exactly the same size, these sheets (one-fourth of an inch thick) are piled upon each other alternately to the number of thirty, and subjected to a welding heat; they are than driven together under a five-ton hammer into a consolidated slab. The slabs so formed are next worked down into one-fouth inch square rods. the more the material is hammered and worked the better it is. The rods are next twisted until they present the appearance of a strand of rope, some rods being twisted to the right and others to the left. Two rods with opposite twist, are heated to the welding degree, placed upon each other, and rolled together; they are now in a narrow slab, presenting that fine curl of "grain" peculiar to the damascus, or that beautiful wavy figure peculiar to the laminated steel,as the case may be. The next operation is to coil one of these slabs around a mandrel in a spiral form, and weld it securely under the blows of hand-hammers. It is now a gun-barrel in the rough.

Finishing and Proving.- The rough barrel goes from the welder to the borer,where it is put through the process of "rough boring." From the "rough borer" it goes into the hands of the "fine borer"
who bores it out smoothly and to near the size it is to be when finished. Another operator then takes it in charge and dresses it to smoothness externally, then the "tester" takes it and dips it into strong acid, which soon shows any imperfection in either twist or welding that might exist. If not perfect, it is sent back to be worked over; if all right, it passes to the next department, where it is straightened inside. This part of the work is governed entirely by the eye, and hence demands the services of a workman of great skill, and experience.

Having been "passed on" by the "staightener", the barrel goes to the "turner", who turns it in a lathe until the outside is true and correspondingly straight with the interior, and is exactly of the required weight. If the arm is to be a double-barrel shotgun, the barrel next goes into the hands of a workman who joins it to another barrel with the utmost nicety; to attain which, levels and other suitable instruments are brought into requisition, Like the man who staightens the bore , the man who joins the barrels must be a workman of great skill.

The next operation is to braze on the "lumps;" then next in order , the ribs are put on. Now comes the "proving." The rear ends haveing been securely plugged, they go to the proof department, where is placed into each barrel fully four ordinary charges of gunpowder; then, atop of this, a wad of strong brown paper, rammed securely down, then a leaden bullet large enough to exactly fit the bore, and then another wad of brown paper. The charge is fired, and if the barrels stand the ordeal unfazed, they are ready to be fitted to the action; otherwise, they go back to be worked over. In some houses the "proving" is done before the barrels are joined together."

Pete

Thanks Pete! It's likely the gun writer guys were as guilty then as they are today of repeating the same information from previous sources, but every addditional bit adds to our fund of knowledge.

"The selected scraps to be worked into gun-barrel material are cut into small pieces and thrown into a furnace, where they are exposed to intense heat until fused, after which they are brought forth an adhering mass and placed under a hammer..."
This is additional confirmation of the formation of the 'bloom' (which Pete M previously illustrated and which jOe has trained his pup to produce ) as the first step in the production process.

Here are some early examples.... A Greener Pinfire. I suspect a few horse nails got used here.






This maybe the oldest European produced damascus example that I have seen so far. A French double flintlock. On this gun Etienne, Brevette, 1000 Francs and Morian all appear. I believe the only way to truly date this example is by the locks.







Notice the "lack of control" in both examples. The later Greener gun showing more "control" than this very early (circa 1790) French gun. But neither shows the control that we see in last quarter of the 19th century nor the extreme control that is achieved in the early 20th century, when names could be incorporated in the welding.

The French gun has very obvious Islamic influence in the production of the damascus. They did not have the same sources of steel as the Islamic makers did, so they adapt the technology. While not on a par with high end Islamic produced damascus, (better, ie, more technically refined barrels had been produced in India at least 100+ years earlier) this is still a very respectable effort.

I am still searching for the "turning point". The point at which carefully arranged billets of known material are arranged and worked to produced a specified product. The exact "turning point" may be lost to history.

Pete

Very good Pete-do you have an approximate year of production of that Greener? I'm thinking that pattern is what Greener called "Laminated Damascus"