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#6816 - 05/08/05 09:32 AM 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Dave Weber Offline

Sidelock
****

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 781
Loc: Bloomfield, NY
Any one loading for a 20 bore Paradox / Fauneta type gun?

I am looking for some loading ideas...for a late model (1930) 20 bore rifled choke SxS.

I have seen a bunch of info for the 12 bore guns but not much on the 20's. I am looking to come close to original Westley Richards ballistics 425gr bullet @ 1500 fps.
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#6817 - 05/09/05 08:20 PM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Tim Carney Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 956
Loc: Washington, DC
Dave,
Ross Seyfried has been working on Faunetas for some time and likely has some good loads. I don't have a number, but if you give Daniel Cote a call at The Double Gun Journal he can either give you the number or relay word you seek to talk with RS whom I found accessible three years ago as I began my own paradox-ing.
Regards, Tim

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#6818 - 05/16/05 12:04 AM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Greg Sappington Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 12
Loc: USA
I don't have any loads for you, but I know of a person with a pressure gun for testing. I have developed my own 12 gauge loads, and sent them off for testing. If you have the bullets, he can develop a load for you if he has the powder. Tom Arbrust at Ballistic research is very reasonable, and can develop the load with your components and bullets. He can be reached at 815-385-0037
I hope this helps Greg S

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#6819 - 05/17/05 07:17 AM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
JAZ Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 97
Loc: NJ
Dave,
According to Ross, this is the most difficult of all loading. Basically the problem is twofold, the velocity and the bullet. I have spoken to Ross on this and know that he is making the bullets himself, which is very time consuming. The "LT" capped bullets are needed to get the velocity. The velocity is the next problem. Ross is using a duplex load of a secret combination which gets him to the 1500 fps which is needed as the guns were regulated for this load.
There is a Fauneta for sale on GA which was never able to get shooting.
Good Luck,
John

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#6820 - 05/17/05 09:18 AM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Utah Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 754
JAZ,

The 20 gauge Fauneta cartridge and its ballistic characteristics can be duplicated without employing the LT capped bullet. The biggest hurdle, coming up with a powder that would generate the required velocity while keeping the pressure around 10,000 psi though after enough trail and error this too can be overcome. As Ross wrote in the DGJ another major obstacle is regulating the bullet diameter so its flight down the barrel is basically frictionless, but is large enough that the rifled choke is not stripped. Again, this obstacle can be overcome.

As Greg S. pointed out, Tom Armburst has compiled quite a bit of hard data on the WR Fauneta load. It is my understanding that Ross has taken the next step by trying to reproduce the original LT Fauneta load. If we could employ a machinist to reproduce the LT bullet in large quantity (bring unit costs down) I would certainly be interested in purchasing. I can't imagine the Ross' frustration trying to machine a 28 gauge LT bullet (though I'm sure his efforts made machining the 20 gauge seem like a "walk in the park").

I, too, heard that the WR Fauneta offered on GunsAmerica was never able to regulate. At the end of the day questions focused primarily on whether the barrels remain in their original alignment. Bore diameter was a bit large too.

Dave W. please keep us updated as to your progress.

Mike
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#6821 - 05/17/05 08:02 PM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Dave Weber Offline

Sidelock
****

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 781
Loc: Bloomfield, NY
Progress....so far everyone has been very helpful!

I have a loaner NEI mold (470 gr) with hollow pointer (425 gr) and some suggested starting loads using "longshot" powder and a bulk powder that is OEM only.

I do not believe I will try to recreate the WR bullet...my barrels are not as heavy as the WR guns I have seen...although I have a loaded Explora cartridge in front of me and it doesn't look like rocket science.

My concern is getting MOD "minute of deer" accuracy out of the gun at a reasonable velocity (before the fall!)...if I succeed I will be more than happy!

I will keep you posted...this week the gun goes for a thorough cleaning over to Turnbull's place.

I anticipate trying some 1100-1200 fps loads to see where it shoots and working up from there...
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doublegunshop.com
DoubleGun Evangelist
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#6822 - 05/17/05 10:20 PM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
JAZ Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 97
Loc: NJ
Dave,
I had an Explora which I shot with a normal Paradox style bullet. I used the "normal" 21.5 of Unique and got 3" groups at 50 yards. Yes, these were regulated for 1500 fps but they will shoot at the lower velocities with some tinkering with wadding, crimping and powder.

Utah,
John Millar in Canada, 250-442-5616, can most likely make up the "LT Capped" bullets. I have an eight and ten Paradox and he has yet to fail making a tool or part. He is a very special machinist.
JAZ

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#6823 - 05/18/05 12:28 AM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Utah Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 754
JAZ,

Do we know each other? John has made all the molds to date for my fauneta. He also made a "day glow" front sight to use when light conditions warrant. John, Tom, Sherman and to a lesser degree Ross have all contributed during my regulating trail and error events.

We have discussed the idea of having John machine several thousand of these LT rounds, but to date I haven't heard whether he's willing to accept the project. Speaking of John, he was also instrumental in machining reloading equipment for my Greener FHT55, 8-gauge. He does do beautiful work.

Mike Land
_________________________
The target lies within.

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#6824 - 05/18/05 10:29 AM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Tim Carney Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 956
Loc: Washington, DC
Mike,
John Millar sounds interesting. Imagine that we can generate a market for LT Capped bullets that any number of us would buy at least 50-100 of, depending on price. Left a message on his answering machine just now. Regards, Tim

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#6825 - 05/18/05 10:02 PM Re: 20 bore 2-1/2" Fauneta loads?
Utah Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 754
Tim,

Let me know what John decides. These could get pretty pricey. I've already passed along that I'd be in for 200. I'm just not sure he feels it's worth his time for a lot of 1,000 or so.
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