doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com August Jung Viernau-5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express

Neat Stuff!! Proudly be the good custodian to that jewel!

Yeah Hart, my middle name just may be „Dangerous“, but I for sure won't be igniting R 905 in it. You know, I think that secondary issue might be due to powder volume. If the powder is somewhat loose short of the neck without any filler, then the powder could flash along the sides and then ignite the powder column in the centre.....


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Major Maness just may not have had an heirs or assigns and that was the reason all his War Trophy stuff was liquidated?? No, he did have @ least one daughter & she sold the whole lot in 2014.....





Maness joined was somehow associated with the US Army in 1936-1937. Then he rejoined in 1941 and earned his keep starting in Oudja, Afrika in 1943. Later he was @ Normandy, then Holland and on to the Battle of the Bulge where in December 1944, he was promoted to Major. His last stint was as an occupation force in Berlin.



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Unfortunately, his Paratrooper Jump Jacket, Jump Boots, Parka, BYF-43 P-38 w/ original holster, extra mag, 7mm German rifle, etc. were all parted a couple dealers back in time.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I think the "aluminum hood' (which makes sense) would be an aluminum tip in American English as in "silver tip" Winchester ammo. Dixon's was written for collectors and does not contain any ballistic information, much less loading data. It is true that cases can be made from 9.3x74R, but actual measurement shows actual head diameter is less than 7x65R, which itself is smaller than 5.6x61R. I don't have either 6.5x65R or 6.5x62R to measure but am informed that either one would be closer to 5.6x61R. Bertram and similar commercial cases almost always show "not in stock" and usually unreasonably priced. To load the 70 grain 22 HP bullet to 3,000 fps I consider IMR 4895 better than 4350, because reducing the 4350 load that much puts it into the area everyone cautions about and 4895 is a medium burning rate powder while the cautions are for slow burning rate powders. The reason to limit the 70gr bullet to 3,000 fps was it was for a 2,800-fps cartridge and did not give acceptable accuracy over 3,000 fps. If there was a 70-gr bullet intended for higher velocity, it would not need to be limited. We have to be careful with this cartridge because it is easy to mix up data for the rimless and rimmed versions, the old, published velocities are questionable and predate the common availability of chronographs. Most of us trying to match the old velocities with actual chronographic results have found it unwise, if not impossible. If anyone can figure it out with the modern powders and bullets, wonderful. Let the rest of us know the answer.
Mike

Ford, it is most easy to distinguish one cartridge from the other: one version has a R(Rand-Rim) and the other does not. Quite simple herein.

Serbis,

Raimey
rse

Thanks to Wolfgang for some credible info:

>>vom Hofe cartridges have always held an exclusive top position among hunting rifle cartridges,
similar to a Lamborghini among automobiles.

Mr. von Hofe had been employed by Halbe and Gerlich (Halger) in Danzig and then by Wilhel Brenneke in Leipzig.
In 1931 Mr. vom Hofe brought out the new hunting rifle cartridge under the designation 7x73 Hofe-Mann Super Express,
followed by the 6x61.5 Hofe-Mann Express. Ammunition was manufactured by DWM. Weapons in Suhl by the Funk company.

In 1937 the small 5.6mm v.Hofe Super Express followed with but also without rim.

During the last years of the war, vom Hofe was employed by the Reich Aviation Ministry and in this context in Peenemünde.
He died on May 4, 1945 in Rechlin/Pomerania.

But the history of the vom Hofe cartridges did not end there.
In 1956, Walter Gehmann acquired the company name and the associated rights.
From 1942 to 1945, Gehmann worked at IWK as head of the Infantry Ammunition Department.
Gehmann was already world champion in 300 meter rifle shooting (Lucerne) in 1929.
He was also German champion 24 times.
The 7x73 was developed from the 300 Holl & Holl.
The 6x61mm was probably designed to compete with the .244 HV Magn. Halger.
With a 6.5 gram, this cartridge achieved a muzzle velocity of 1028 m/sec. from a 65 cm barrel.
Both calibers were not successful. The reason for this was the experiment with the 5.6 mm caliber that had already begun at the time.

In 1937 the 5.6 Super Express appeared, which has remained practically unchanged in configuration and ballistics to this day.
From 1938, this cartridge appeared with the newly designed Teilmanel bullet with a spiked aluminum tip.
Even then, the jacket consisted of 90 % Cu and 10 % Zn, the so-called tombac.

In 1941 Gehmann developed the 7x66 Super Express.
Roy Weatherby had similar ideas at the same time in faraway California.
Weatherby developed his high-performance cartridge series in rapid succession from 1942 onwards.

Gehmann resumed work on the 7x66 in 1954.
He initially used the .404 Jeffery case.
The shoulder angle was 60 degrees.
Loaded with a 10 gram partial and full metal jacket bullet.
With a powder chamber of 5.54 cc, the case of the 7x66 S.E. still has a high level of capacity even today in this Kaiberg group.
a high degree of capacity (for comparison: 7x64 = 3.71 cc).

Work on the 7 mm rim project began in 1957.
The 8x75R Behr was retracted to the 7mm caliber.
The shoulder angle here was 50 degrees.
Another change was made at the beginning of the 60s.
The case neck was changed to 10.3 mm and the angle to 30 degrees.
The 9.3x74R was now used as the main receiver.

In the mid-50s Gehmann began to develop its own bullet,
as all conventional partial jacket bullets in high-performance cartridges often failed miserably in hard target resistance.
The result was the so-called stop-ring bullet made of tombac.
The 8 gram stop-ring bullet developed was intended for killing medium-sized cloven-hoofed game.
It was therefore obvious to add a correspondingly heavier counterpart for heavy cloven-hoofed game.
It was not until 1962 that the 11 gram stop-ring bullet with a two-part lead core was released.
This had a 3.8 mm high steel ring located directly below the separation plane between the two lead cores.
between the two lead cores.
This meant that there were now two stop-ring bullets available to hunters.
Stop-ring bullets have no longer been manufactured since 1972.
The IMK had given up ammunition production.

At the end of 1963, Gehmann turned his attention to a 6 mm ammunition based on the 7x66.
The result was the 6x66 v.Hofe Super Express.
With a shoulder angle of 50 degrees.
In 1965/66, mainly 6.5 gram bullets were tested in it.
Nosler Partition, Remington Core-Lokt and DWM-Starkmantel.
Propelled with 5.1 gram Norma 205 ( today MRP ) powder, the cartridge achieved 1160 m/sec.
with 70 cm long barrels. The velocities were measured 25 meters in front of the muzzle.

These values showed that the 6x66 v.Hofe SE could have been an excellent all-round cartridge.
With a powder capacity of 5.62 cc, it ultimately delivered even more favorable ballistic data than the 6.5 x 68 (5.18 cc).

Because the use of ammunition in a caliber of less than 6.5 mm on cloven-hoofed game (except roe deer) has since been prohibited in the Federal Republic of Germany, Gehmann regrettably abandoned this excellent cartridge, which, by the way, had proven itself very well in foreign hunting practice.

In this context, it should also be mentioned that at the time. (1965 / 66 ) the test firing
at the IWK were carried out by a Mr. G. Freres.
The very same man who in 1984 publicized a 6x62 Freres cartridge that was apostrophized as a “high performance cartridge”<<
Forced Translation.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I shall add a small detail for the rimmed 5,6x61R, namely that its uncommon case today is preferably re-formed from the .30 R Blaser (available since 1991).

Carcano

Raimey,
Of course, it is very easy to tell the difference between the rimmed and rimless versions of the cartridges when they are both "in hand". The problem comes in when other people cite ballistics or loading data of the 5.6x61 without clearly showing the difference. You can hardly match the advertised ballistics of the correct cartridge and trying to get the 5.6x61 von Hofe SE velocity from a 5.6x61R vom Hofe SE will likely cause problems. Your discussion of the need for "harder" bullets is precisely the reason we had to limit the 70 gr 22HP bullets to 3,000fps or less to obtain acceptable groups.
Mike

Carcano,
You are absolutely right about the preferred case for the 5.6x61R. The problem is that they are much less available than 7x65R in the US. I would be happy to change to them, If I could find them at a reasonable price. My rifle came with cases formed from 30-06 Rimmed (which I am using) and from Berdan primed 8x60R (which I have retired). We use the best cases we can find that are satisfactory. For the rimless version, many people start with 25-06.
Mike

from several different savage 22 high power efforts over the years, i can relate the experience that the speer 70 grain semi-spitzer (@.228) is much more frangible than the hornady 70 grain spire point (@.227). these were the choices for 22hp that were readily available. i believe the norma bullet was midway between them - but never found those bullets available as components.

doubtlessly german sources would provide bullets better suited for high velocity, but if experiments with cheaper stuff is useful i would search for the hornady.

best regards,

tom