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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79 |
I have a pretty pre-war Merkel double rifle from 1931. Has .318" bores. Shoots S&B 8x57JR very well. For reloading, I'm using a RCBS 8x57JR FL die with a .318 expander plug (RCBS #56366). Sized necks are correct, but unloaded brass won't allow the rifle to fully close. I'm using a shellholder that I had on hand for 44-40 work. RCBS package says use #26. Is there any chance the recommended shell holder for this rimmed cartridge is thinner, measured from the where the base of the cartridge sits to the top surface that contacts the die's bottom? I have the die turned 1/4 turn past where it bottoms out against the shell holder. I have not yet smoked a case to see where the contact is, nor done a detailed measurement at different stages up the case to compare a factory round that fits to my resized cases that don't. I will, but wondered if I might be missing something else. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks, Chris This rifle was offered on Gunsinternational awhile back before being auctioned elsewhere. Pics are still up on GI: https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ble-rifle-8-x-57-jr.cfm?gun_id=101787360
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263 |
CJF, I suggest you don't adjust your dies the way you do, even if the instructions say to do so. Once you fire a cartridge in the rifle, I suggest you smoke the case and adjust the sizing die to just 'kiss" the shoulder of the fired case. This way you are adjusting the headspace to fit the cases to the actual rifle (adjust it to a case fired in one barrel and verify with a case fired in the other barrel). This way you are headspacing on the shoulder, instead of on the rim, as you are now doing. By adjusting the die like you are now doing now it is likely you are pushing the shoulder back, and when it is fired, the case will elongate and likely result in head separation after only a few firings. It may be that the case elongates enough on the first firing that the end of the sized case strikes the ledge at the end of the chamber neck and beginning of the chamber throat. Or it may be that setting the shoulder back as much as you are likely doing may create a bulge at the shoulder. Either of these conditions might result in the problem you have. If you measure the head diameter of both an 8x57JR and 44-40 case and if they are the same, or very close the shell holder is not the problem. While you are checking this all out, it will be worth your while to check whether a .321-.322" or .323" bullet will easily fit into the neck of a fired but not resized case. If a bullet other than .318" will fit easily, it can be used to load ammunition. You will need to smoke a case to find what is causing the failure to close. You might not have a problem, unless it takes significant force to close the rifle. Good luck. Mike
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sharps4590 |
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 11,361 Likes: 276
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 11,361 Likes: 276 |
Ford:
Do you tighten the set screws on the dies for each calibre for each rifle in that you have a specific die for each chambering for each rifle? Or do you just adjust a single die each time to the requirements for the rifle of choice @ the time?
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79 |
...Do you tighten the set screws on the dies for each calibre for each rifle in that you have a specific die for each chambering for each rifle? Or do you just adjust a single die each time to the requirements for the rifle of choice @ the time? ... This is my only rimmed 8x57 and my first time attempting to size and reload any cases I've fired. So the dies are not set for each rifle. Typically I'll do that once I get a load working well. For rimmed cartridges, I usually don't do the extra quarter turn when setting the sizing die, but for rimless, that seems necessary. I'll smoke cases tomorrow. I used a universal decapper so some of the S&B rounds I fired should still be in their original dimensions...I'll confirm they chamber well now. I know unfired factory ammo with .318 bullets chambers. The loaded round I'd made had a .318 bullet, but one shaped differently than the factory ammo. Might the shape of the bullet, but these are seated pretty deeply compared to the S&B. Need a good night sleep before I mess with this more. Thank you for the help Mike & Raimey. Always appreciated. Chris
Last edited by CJF; 01/19/25 12:10 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263 |
Raimey, Unless I intend to load a significant quantity of the same cartridges, I don't usually tighten the set screw. If I only have one rifle with a particular setting, I will tighten the set screw. I use the same set of 8mm Mauser dies to load 8x57 I-IS, IR-IRS, R/360, 8.25x57R Hagen, and 8x72R, so I have to set them for each rifle. On the other hand, the 5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express stay set the same. Cris, The universal decapper doesn't do anything to harm the cases and a factory round fired in a particular chamber can't be larger in diameter than that chamber but will likely be larger and/or different shape than the factory rounds. This is why I set the dies like I do, to make the reloaded cases the same as the chamber rather than a factory round. Custom/ commercial hand loaders need to make cases the same as factory rounds, so they fit everybody's rifle (unless they have the rifle or cases fired in it to set the dies by). If a case fired in a chamber won't go back into the chamber (absent excessive pressure) something has happened during the reloading process to change one or more of the dimensions. When you smoke the cases, you should be able to see what changed. The case length should be measured and the cases trimmed to the "trim to" length (usually a little shorter than new case length). Bulges in the shoulder area are often caused by seating a bullet w/o cannelure in a too long case or crimping too much on a solid area of the bullet. I believe you will quickly "figure" the problem out when you smoke a case. Good luck. Mike
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 373 Likes: 79 |
Thanks Mike. Apologies, I haven't smoked a case yet. Weather finally turned here, so I'll go to the range Monday to move a few projects forward. I'll also pre-measure some of the S&B ammo I have and then fire that so it can be measured again to see what's changed. The Merkel shoots so well with the S&B factory ammo, if worse comes to worst, I'll just stock up on that (one of my favorite online ammo retailers has 6 boxes in stock at $23/box.)
Last edited by CJF; 01/26/25 09:32 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,666 Likes: 263 |
Cris, There is no need to apologize, we all delay projects in bad weather. Mike
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