doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com J.W. Tolley shotgun turns out to be a Double Rifle

J.W. Tolley shotgun turns out to be a Double Rifle

When searching auctions for good deals, it pays to read past the heading and read the detail description.

This was the case when I saw a heading that read; "J. W. Tolly Rotary-Underlever Hammergun SxS Shotgun 500 Black Powder Express"... but the detail description read; "J.W. Tolley Rotary Underlever 500 Black Powder Express Double rifle"

When the auction ended I was the high bidder at less than 1/2 the low estimate. Take a look .... what do you think?

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/500t-000.jpg


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I had a similar, a H&H 20G shotgun that had originally been a double rifle they had honed the bores out smooth due to the UKs stupid laws. Sold it on at a Reno gun show for $4500.

Buckstix, congrats on the bargain buy. You have to love a double rifle for less than $1000. Have you determined the chamber length? What to you think re date of manufacture? The finial on the underlever says early 1880s to me.

Bavarianbrit, it seems you did very well selling your H&H. What grade was it? Curious if you ever shot it with slugs before selling it on. I ask as I have a 20 bore Army Navy CSL gun that I recently picked up. It was formerly a 500EX rifle before being bored out to 20 gauge. At that time it got a new partial top rib (no signs of former sights, but it kept the stub with the dolls head extension. Bottom rib shows where slign swivel was removed.) Gun was made by Webley Scott as a screw grip and is a plainer twin to my 1889 vintage Army Navy 500EX and a bigger version of my later 1905 Watson 360EX.

Yes, I'm anxious to get all the details. Non-Rebounding hammers would indicate 1880s? Based on the 5 dram load engraved on the action, I'm assuming it may be 3-1/4" length chamber. but not sure.

Best of luck working up a load. I love that process, except when I'm getting nowhere, and then it's frustrating as all get out.

Hello all, I got the double in hand today. First thing I did was to look down the barrels .... there is rifling ... its not a shotgun.

The chambers and the rifling were MINT. But when I inserted a 500 bpe cartridge into the chambers, it was way too loose. The chambers were bigger. Turns out this is NOT a 500 bpe. after all, its the larger 577-500 No. 2 bpe. Take a look at the difference between the two cartridges. I have loaded some ammo and a field test will follow. .... Let me know what you think?

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/500vs577-000.jpg

The 577-500 #2 is my favorite BPE round. I have a hammerless Westley double in it.

No idea of the grade although it did look nice, I had bought the H&H book on all their guns made so it dated around 1890 and I gave the buyer the book as well. I still have a H&H rook rifle with an octagonal barrel that was bored out and sleeved with a .22 lr insert that my local Ferlach trained smith then fitted a nice vintage scope mount from his stockpile to then on went the 6x42 Zeiss west from the drilling that I bought, it has taken maybe 500 magpies since 2003.

Surely you have looked at the proof marks on the barrel flats ? It will state the calibre etc there and the proof house stamp -- probably Birmingham for a Tolley

I am not new to reading markings of British Double rifles. The barrel rib stamped "J & W Tolley, 1 Conduit Street, Regent Street, London". Therefore the year of manufacture would be 1883-1893. In 1883 the firm opened a shop in London at 1 Conduit Street, in 1894 this moved to 59 (New) Bond Street. There are Birmingham Proof stamps on the barrel flats and the action table. There are bore markings of "39" on the bottom of each barrel indicating a bore of .492". The barrel short rib is stamped "J&W.T" - "STEEL" - "6732". But there are no caliber markings. The side of the action is marked CHARGE 5 DRAMS, but that does not imply caliber.