doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Henry Buckley Birmingham

Here are a couple of photos of a shotgun marked "Henry Buckley Birmingham" on the rib. It is a highly detailed gun, but I have never heard of the "maker". Does anyone know of Mr. Buckley ? Locks are rebounding.

Obviously a very high quality gun. Mr. Buckley is not in Tate's Birmingham book. I'll check Boothroyd tonight.

Had heard of a "Samuel Buckley" somewhere but not Henry. Very ornate gun--possible percussion conversion? Sweet skeleton btw. Looks like a lot of same-era guns I guess, Reilly for example.

IGC shows a Henry Buckley in Birmingham, 1817 - 1825, died 1824, also Fredrick 1927 - 1929, no data on either. Samuel they show as a possible importer in the US, 1924, much too late for this gun. How would you like to try inletting that buttplate?

Jim

Samuel Buckley was one of the officers in British Small Arms Co. in Birmingham. Have not seen a Henry!
Interesting gun!

Craig

I suppose the gun could be a good conversion, but the receiver engraving seems very much the same as the lock engraving. The barrels don't have much engraving, so it's hard to tell. Here are a couple more photos.

A number of years ago I owned a high grade double hammer, engraved on the locks, "Samuel Buckley". The top rib was engraved," John E.Long Detroit." The gun serial # was 5709.The action of the gun incorporated the William powell patent #1163 of 1864,which is their lift-up lever, snap action.
As a follow-up, whilst in Birmingham ,I visited Powell,s who confirmed it was 1 of 5 guns made For Samuel Buckley and Co; of Detroit.If your gun has a serial number that is close to 5709 its origin may also be Powell,s!
Buckley is a name that is record as being active In the Birmingham trade. It is possible that the Buckleys emmigrated to Detroit and that H.Buckley was a partner in the firm of Samuel Buckley & Co;?

A number of years ago I owned a high grade double hammer, engraved on the locks, "Samuel Buckley". The top rib was engraved," John E.Long Detroit." The gun serial # was 5709.The action of the gun incorporated the William powell patent #1163 of 1864,which is their lift-up lever, snap action.
As a follow-up, whilst in Birmingham ,I visited Powell,s who confirmed it was 1 of 5 guns made For Samuel Buckley and Co; of Detroit.If your gun has a serial number that is close to 5709 its origin may also be Powell,s!
Buckley is a name that is record as being active In the Birmingham trade. It is possible that the Buckleys emmigrated to Detroit and that H.Buckley was a partner in the firm of Samuel Buckley & Co;?

Thanks everyone. The gun has no serial numbers anywhere. I am showing two more photos . One of the lock [unnamed] and one of the barrels and how their sculpturing ties into the receiver. Of course, the Jones underlever seems current with the rebounding lock era [later 1860s] I don't know if the proofs tell anything.

I hope Bill McPhail or similar persons familiar with some of the earlier American guns sees this. He has one with fence treatment similar to this--I think Patrick Mullen based on a W & C Scott action as I recall from the 1860s.

Montana, I guess the proofs could be 1855-75, so not alot of help there. The locks, if original, are later than 1865 or so.
Given the Birmingham address on the rib, I assume the gun was not marketed in the U S with only the Henry Buckley name being the U S part. I have looked at a few Mullins since your post and don't see any John or Patrick Mullin guns, muzzle or breechloaders, that are "carved" in this style. I would love to have Bill McPhail chime in.

Correct. After seeing your later photo with the barrel, none that I find are as ornate. That circle in the bridle (that large a circle in the bridle I should say) has got to be unique. All we've done I think is date the gun as you suggest.

Well, it seems that Samuel Buckley & Co. were made by I. Hollis and Son from 1862 to 1900. Source says these where sold by J. Palmer O'Neill & Co. and by H&D Folsom Arms Co. in the 1880's. This from someone named Donald Buckley in 2002 through Ron Gabel's site, GabelGuns.com

Hmmm, interesting, in that if Buckley was in BSA, so were Hollis and so was Charles Playfair. I'll have to see where my Playfair rebounding hammer gun is and take a look at the lines of the gun. I don't think that is what the Buckley gun reminds me of but at least it's a place to start. Hollis at least did market guns in the US around this period and did make guns for the trade right?

I believe that it is an early conversion from percussion.

George Lander

Daryl,
Wow! What a beauty. The skeleton and hammers are exquisite.
Ross

George L., what is it that you see that makes you think the gun is a conversion ?

That is a neat gun...the more pictures you post the more details I see.

Found the picture your locks reminded me of on the Wolverhamption Gunlock site

This is the Playfair the details on the barrel and fence area reminded me of at first glance

This photo of one of Kirby's Birmingham guns (he dates it 1890s) shows more of what I was thinking I guess in saying percussion fence lines

Am really enjoying this thread 'cause I have a Buckley Cape gun I've wanted to learn more about.

Mine's a back action rebounding hammer gun with Jones underlever, marked "Sam'l Buckley & Co. - Birmingham" on locks and top ribs. Has two sets of Damascus barrels, one 14b/14b, the other 14b/.45-70. The latter set has a standing sight and five folding leaves for 100/200/300/400/500 yards.

It doesn't appear to be as high grade a gun as Daryl's, but is obviously well made, and quite accurate. Since one barrel is marked "Not for Ball" it dates 1875-1887. I'm especially interested that it's chambered for .45-70; an English gun of that date with that chambering must have been made for the American market, right?

R - is it originally stamped "45-70?" Or, is that what it measures?

Rocketman: The rifle barrel (of which I made a chamber cast) is stamped 52. The shotgun barrels are stamped 15. As I said, the .45-70 barrel is very accurate and case dimensions remain the same after firing. I suppose it could have been rechambered at some point but I'd be surprised - everything just seems correct.

In Seller's "American Gunsmiths" he list "Samuel Buckley & Co." as the trade name of J. Palmer O'Neil of Pittsburgh, Penn 1882-1885, Breech-loading shotguns.

MP, the O'neil company also imported Westley Richards guns with Pittsburgh Firearms Co. on them in the early 1880s. I don't think the two Buckley names are related , at least timewise.

Daryl,

I have nothing on Henry Buckley, Birmingham and likewise see no connection.

The history of the Birmingham Proof House details serious problems with administration of the proof act of 1855. In 1868 a new act passed into law. One purpose of this act was to,"curb the authority of the proof master"! Under the provisions of the new act, magistrates and city councillors were appointed/elected to serve as guardians of the proof house. Samuel Buckley was a magistrate or councillor serving on the board of guardians. It is very unlikely that he was ever in business as a Bimingham gunmaker. On december 31 1868 Samuel buckley was appointed chairman of the Guardians.
Samuel Buckley obviously had excellent connections within the Birmingham gun trade. It is almost certain that he established the business of, Samuel Buuckley and Co; in Detroit, for the purpose of selling Birmingham made guns.Per my earlier post, William Powell of Birmingham made at least 5 guns for Samuel Buckley & Co; Detroit.This fact is recorded in Powells records.

Roy, thanks for the good history. I wish I could wander the streets of the gunmaking areas and find someone who could answer questions. These old guns seem to have a story to tell. Maybe we can hear the story if we all keep at it. Powell had a really neat history. I especially like their hammer guns around 1855-75. Wonderful metal work and they were in the forefront of patents for the developing breechloaders.

DH - one of the keys to hearing these stories is to keep showing interesting guns and asking intersting questions. Thanks for this thread!! Pooled knowledge is a wonderous thing.

I have often thought of spending time in Belgium and England looking for more information. Some times you can share small bits of knowledge, but mostly you have to be able to listen and learn. For me, there is still so much to learn. Thanks Daryl, Roy, Micheal, Rocketman, James-l, et al.

Roy, you are always a well of information.

Pete

Here's a final photo of the Buckley. The elaborate forend tip apparently was not strong enough to last the hundred plus years of use. Wish I could have seen the whole thing.

Daryl,
No offense to Messrs. Powell and the remnants of the trade in B'ham, but having gone there every month on (non-gun) business last year I must admit that I learn more by spending an hour on this board than I did in all those trips!
K.

K, I am sure you are right. In a way , I was thinking of just getting the shop and street locations in my mind first hand. Sort of a background for talking about these things we enjoy. I suppose most of those with first hand knowledge are history now.

Quick question on comparison of Wolverhampton gunlock picture and the one you posted at the bottom of page one, how does the rebounding lock work on the Buckley? It doesn't look like what I have been told is a Stanton patent. I would have expected an extension on the top limb of the mainspring and something on the tumbler to engage that extension.

Shows the hammer being held back by the sear in a notch.



Shows the sear in fired position with the hammer all of the way forward. When trigger pressure on the sear is released, the sear spring forces the hammer backward and the sear returns to the notch.