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Joined: Apr 2002
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zehyani Offline OP
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any information will be welcomed.
I am trying to learn as I go along. I don't intend to bid yet.
thanks
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++1558+&refno=++214116&saletype=

Lang at Holts Auction

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It is a gun that has barrel wall thickness too thin. .021" and .022" The nearly same gun but in excellent barrel wall thickness of .028" and .032" and unmolested near pristine condition is listed for sale now here:



https://www.gmackinlay.com/product/12g-sidelock-ejector-by-joseph-lang-son-28-x-2-1-2-barrels/

Compare what you see in this Lang gun versus what you see in the worn out Lang you have listed at Holt's and you will be educated---price education especially of several thousand dollars maybe arriving at your gun cabinet.

Last edited by bushveld; 03/17/24 04:00 PM.
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What's not to love! I've always love Lang guns. Looks like a nice one but lots more to know about it like barrel condition, cast, drops.


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BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

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zehyani Offline OP
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Thank you both. I appreciate this.

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Originally Posted by zehyani
Thank you both. I appreciate this.

Maybe you (and others) do not know to look at the barrel condition chart which lists wall thickness and bore dimensions at the Holt's website page. This is a tarted up gun waiting for the naive.

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Originally Posted by bushveld
Originally Posted by zehyani
Thank you both. I appreciate this.

Maybe you (and others) do not know to look at the barrel condition chart which lists wall thickness and bore dimensions at the Holt's website page. This is a tarted up gun waiting for the naive.

Do not know about that. Thanks.


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BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

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Part of the education also is that smallbores will always cost more than the same gun in 12g. British makers--just like classic American makers--made far more 12s than they did smallbores. Smaller supply, greater demand based on fewer guns = higher price.

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Bush led, could you provide a link to the barrel condition chart?


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Originally Posted by bushveld
Originally Posted by zehyani
Thank you both. I appreciate this.

Maybe you (and others) do not know to look at the barrel condition chart which lists wall thickness and bore dimensions at the Holt's website page. This is a tarted up gun waiting for the naive.
Originally Posted by bushveld
[quote=zehyani]Thank you both. I appreciate this.


I used to but can’t seem to find it anymore. Where is it?

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Here’s the bore link Bore. It’s off their main page.

The Holt’s gun is a 20 and with a 7/8” pad is only 14.5”. It isn’t their best work gun with a flat back vs. stocked to the fences and bordered engraved. Even though it is proofed for 2 3/4” you won’t want to shoot off the shelf shells in it.

Ken

Last edited by KDGJ; 03/17/24 07:43 PM.
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eeb Offline
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MWT of .21/.22, with reproofed 23/4” barrels? No thanks.

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zehyani Offline OP
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Thanks again.
I could not find the wall thickness, but your link was great.

Lets see what comes up on the next auction.

z

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https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/content/pdf/Bore_Measurements_A0324.pdf

There is a reason most of these guns have been sent to a auction house. Lesson I learned, long time ago and still forget too often. If you see barrels partially struck, and in the white, you can bet the barrels had a repair and are very much a question mark. Everything must be within proof but you can pound a bulge down bulge or raise a dent, strike it down for refinish and decide the barrels are going to be marginal after that and you decide to send it to auction. Perfectly legal and accepted. So look carefully at every picture. Stock cracks are not too common, but Holt's makes a very real effort to list every major issue in their description. Read them carefully. Look at the pictures carefully. Then do your homework and you can even go back and look at recent sales for what things sold for then.

Basic rule of thumb is nothing be careful to shoot any gun under .020", .025" is better and .030 or greater, is like new condition for British guns. Small bore guns are in limited numbers and will bring better prices just due to supply and demand. If the engraving is polished or worn down that gun has seen heavy use or or had lots of pitting. When they say barrels pitted, go look at the bore chart. A gun at .030 with pits is less of an issue than any gun at .020" with a pit. In proof is another thing to understand. Proof is only diameter of the bore related or chamber lengthen related. Enlarge the bore greater than .010" and it is out of proof. Now they use mm, but same basic concept. It, proof, has nothing to do with wall thickness and suitability to be shot. A gun can be in proof at .030 wall thickness or at .015" or less. And with few exceptions these guns are not rare and another one may come along if you watch long enough.

Looking is free and buying can only begin the cost and the wrong purchase can make you regret ever trying. But you can find a gem, if lucky, and feel like you won. I bought a Pape 20 bore, Damascus barreled Hammer gun, which was listed with thin barrels. Turns out, the thinnest was .019" at 27", out of 30". It handles well and is choked mod in both barrels. It was a find and if it had .025 barrels it most likely would have been four times what I paid for it and out of my price range. I had been looking for a 30" small bore for several years until I got lucky.

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The buttstock is very plain on the public side, off side is gorgeous. I don't like that.
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
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