doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com I have posted this to warn others about this fraud

Hello All

I have posted this to warn others about this fraudulent seller on Gun Broker.

here is the original listing ... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1034173843

A thoughtful wife bought this rifle for her husband as a Valentine's Day gift. But, she didn't know that you can't trust a seller on Gunbroker with an A+(585) rating. She didn't know to check the feedback to see that the seller had over 34 Negatives. (4 Negatives in the last 3 weeks) She didn't now that when the seller says MAGNUM in 3 places in the listing that he may be lying.

Even though many of us know guns, and that we know that Mauser did make Model A Magnum action rifles, we can't see in pictures the 5/15" difference in length between a Standard length action, and a Magnum length action. We look to the description.

After the sale, I had a chance to review the rifle in hand ... Here is what I found along with observations that were confirmed from Axel E., a World Renowned Expert on Mauser rifles.

This is a real type A Mauser Commercial rifle, built 1930 – 31 for retail by Manton, Calcutta. But, it is NOT a rare Oberndorf “Magnum” action rifle. It is a 10.75x68 rifle on a common standard length action.

In addition, the rifle was severely altered, which was not disclosed by the seller. Alterations that have totally destroyed its collector value. These include:

The rear receiver bridge was ground down, removing the clip guide ears, the front and rear receiver were drilled and tapped for a scope mount base. The bolt handle is a new low profile handle that was welded on in place of the original, and the stock was altered to accept that new handle, and a low profile Buehler safety was installed to clear a scope.

These mutilations have totally destroyed collector value, even though it was a rare model A Mauser in 10.75x68 caliber. Original Mauser, Oberndorf Commercial rifles in 10.75x68 caliber are rare since most of them are of the B type. Only about 15% of the small number of these rifles are type A. But with the alterations, and its not being a rare Magnum, the value is only about HALF of what the lady paid.

As I said, the lady buyer didn't know about rifles, and she bought it as a gift for her husband, and went by the description. Only later was it found NOT to be a Magnum. We can't fault her for believing the seller, and trying to surprise her husband with a special gift.

The husband has now filed a complaint with the Credit Card Co. and received a temporary charge-back, but it will be months before all the back-and-forth arguments are settled, because the seller has stated that the listing says that he doesn't accept returns, and the buyer should have relied on the pictures.

The husband hasn't pushed the issue and told her that she was defrauded, because after all it was a Valentine's Day Present and she meant well. But unfortunately she got taken by a crooked dealer. Lets just hope it all gets settled, and the rifle gets sent back to the dealer, so he can try to stick it to someone else.

Beware this seller - page through and read all his Negatives.

.

It seems the seller is going steeply downhill. His recent ratings are much worse than his overall average would suggest.

Not accepting returns is a red flag to me.

Sorry to see you and yours got caught up in that one. It is an attractive looking rifle, and it certainly sold for a pretty large chunk of change.

I wish you luck in winning your case.

I too was surprised at the ratings. His older ratings, though the listings are not available, are really pretty good. One thing that waved a red flag to me was that he has been GB for about 5 years and has 500 odd listings which is one every 3 days or so. I checked the last 4 or 5 months and counted around 1 every 2 days or so, except for January, where he had 1 sale. The latter part of this period was when he experienced an incredible number of bad listings. This coupled with fact that he has 3 active listings seems to indicate some upheavel ocurred. All of his sales still posted indicates he is selling the bulk of his merchandise in the mid to upper four figure range. That coupled with a no return policy puts him in a never-bid category from my position.

I noticed too that the buyer has been on GB for years, yet years separate each of his 7 listed transactions. Seems like a buyer that shouldn't be bidding on sight unseen auctions like this.

You say he is fighting with the CC company. Shouldn't he be talking to GB instead. The great emphasis on the Magnum action should be enough to void the sale from their end.

Gun Broker buyer protection only pays up to $400... they are no help.

That guy must have wrote ad copy for Herters in a previous life.

John

WELL ... LOOKS LIKE THEIR ACCOUNT WAS SUSPENDED BY GUNBROKER .... ITS ABOUT TIME !

UPDATE .... THE SUSPENSION WAS SHORT LIVED .... 4 HOURS LATER HE'S BACK IN BUSINESS ... GUN BROKER PUT HIM BACK IN BUSINESS .... THEY MUST HAVE LIKED THE FEES THEY WERE COLLECTING .... ? ? ?

Not really .... this was an outright FRAUD. And ... I'm considering changing my signature because I'm 72 and this was more true when I was in my 30s .... not so much now because I don't have a lot of "early" left.

Go look at one of the bidders. I think one was a shill bidder, in place to drive up the total sale price. One thing I do not like about GunBroker is the never ending extension they impose, to keep the auction going, as the price soars after what was the original end of auction time. I have seen too many auctions where the price gets driven up over and over again by bidders with few feed backs over literally years or decades of use. If I am interested in a item I just bid my top amount and let it go. Not willing to bid hundreds extra just because someone else does. If you have the time, you can trace a shill bidder because they will show up on other sales from the same seller. You will notice they will bid several time, at the end, but always seem to come up just short of the final winning bid. One shill bidder I discovered bid almost fifty times, in a month period, with zero wins and always for the same seller. When I brought this to GunBrokers attention they were not aware or concerned about it. That fake bidder was still playing his games a few month later on another item for the same seller. So GunBroker just does not care and did nothing.

I hope this works out well for the buyer. I expect they will find that GunBroker will be their usual absolutely worthless in resolving this issue. I have been forced to use credit card companies, Postal Inspectors, LEO and even had help from the BATF once. And PayPal is worse than GunBroker in my experience which is why I no longer use them for anything more than sending grand kids a few dollars for birthdays. And I do not think a "disclaimer" will absolve the seller from fraud ,which is what this type of deception is.

Yes, I see that gunbroker keeps their account active because of the thousands of dollars they make in commissions, even from a fraudulent seller with over 40 negatives ... eight of which are for being a "non-paying bidder."

I don't want to seem like a jerk here, but maybe you're going a bit far. Now, if I had seen that listing, I would have had some skepticism from the Herter inspired description and fanfare. But to call this a fraud is a bit of a stretch. The guy posted a hundred pictures, nothing was hidden, the bolt handle, safety, scope holes and ground bridge were all visible. As for the action, the thumb slot, would have been my first clue to dig a little deeper.

How many dealers are familiar with magnum Mausers? This guy may have never seen one before. If he sold you a rifle advertised as a converted military action, and it was built on an Oberndorf kurz action, would you be yelling fraud? The world is full of misidentified guns, it isn't always intentional. If you're spending this kind of money, with this kind of dealer, with no homework, you're not giving yourself a lot of wiggle room.

The uninformed lady that bought the rifle was going by the seller's description. A legitimate dealer that made a mistake would have offered an immediate refund. .. and would answer the phone and emails... and would not have 4o negatives where all of them say he does not reply to emails ans phone calls .... no, there is no doubt that this was an intentional fraudulent listing. read all the negatives.

Yes, that's the point where it went from possibly a dealer's honest mistake to fraud or something like it.

I'll tell you what, I can see two sides to this story. The seller does state, and it's highlighted in yellow, that his description is his opinion, and you need to come to your own conclusion, and he provides lots of photos, everything you said was misrepresented was clearly photographed and obvious. And looking at your story, more and more, something isn't adding up. But, whatever.

sure ... "the other side of the story" ... a 40 negative cop-out-disclaimer..? and how would you explain his 8 negatives for being a non-paying bidder ? .. definitely "adds up" to a fraudulent dealer ....

Yeah, that dealer is playing some games, but it looks like you don't mind playing games either.

Try "reading" the OP .... I'm not the buyer ... I'm only warning others about the fraudulent seller.

But apparently you wanted to be the buyer, early on in the auction: (from Gunbroker);

"2/10/2024 12:06:05 PM ET buckstix A+(266) Verified Member $123.45"

Why did you backway from bidding? Now you might have done just so GB would keep you informed of the bidding progress. If you didn't get back in because there were maybe issues you saw why wouldn't you have told your friend? The buyer's first bid on 2/11 and then made a winning bid on 2/17. It all is water over the damn. You have told the world you are unhappy so let it be.

Let it be? ? ? What is your problem ? ? .... Yes, I tagged the item with an early $123 bid on the first day, only to see how high it would go ...I had no desire to own it ... I was just curious because I collect Vintage Mausers. I had no knowledge of the lady's bid until after the fact, .... when it was too late to warn her. ...

Why on earth would you stand up for this fraudulent seller ? ? - - I see the seller just got ANOTHER NEGATIVE .... that's " 5 " NEGATIVES in the last 4 weeks, ... that's 5 NEGATIVES of 14 transactions (2 of the other 9 were B's) .... are you part of this seller's company? ... IS THAT WHY YOU ARE SO DETERMINED TO DEFEND THIS FRAUDULENT SELLER ? .......... maybe if it was your $5,641.73 you would be more understanding and see why I am warning others so they don't get taken .... go ahead Mr. Last Word.

You are wasting internet time! LOL
You said; " Yes, I only tagged the item with an early $123 bid to see how high it would go ...I had no desire to own it " Why did you not want it? I wonder if you knew the seller was defrauding buyers at any point, why you didn't say something? You had plenty of time to do so. Or maybe your outrage is just because it was a friend whose wife was not very knowledgeable about guns. Which then says the rest of the community is not your prime focus. I am sure she just didn't wake up one morning and say, "Oh today I will jump on GB and buy a gun, lets see, this one my husband would like."
What is the real back story here? Or let it drop and as I said "let it be".

Now remember if you reply then your new title will be "Mr. Last Word".

This whole thing is screwy, everything he has written, here and elsewhere, "reads" like he is the buyer. It seems a little suspect that both him, and his "friend", sit around bidding on guns to watch them, instead of just putting them on their watch list. He claims his "friend" knew it was junked, but then brought it to him so they could consult with some "world renowned expert" to tell them what the pictures already made obvious. It's also a little curious that the "lady" has her own GB account, and would buy from him on gunbroker instead of just buying in person.

That said, Clauss is problematic. The fraud aspect is debatable to me, I approach auctions like a three toed wolf approaches a trap, if I get burned, it's my fault. Clauss does make very good use of shill bidders.

LOL ..... Well, as long as you want to keep things going ..... its simple ... husband bid $1988 ... what he was willing to pay for the rifle giving the condition .... then while husband was out of town ... wife saw the bid .. and thought the husband wanted it. ... so she bid at the end (using his account) to buy it for him as a Valentines Day gift .... husband said "thank"s ... when I was told about the purchase ... I chimed in on various forums to warn others about the Fraudulent seller ... no problem ... If you think he's an OK seller ... feel free to buy from him .... maybe you can be the next Negative in his feedback.

Even though I didn't want to buy it ... I like to tag auction items with a bid rather than adding to a watch list ... believe me ... If I wanted to add it to "my" collection .. "I" would have bought it ..

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/safari47.jpg

Try this book. It will do you well.
“Ego is the Enemy”
Ryan Holiday.

https://www.wob.com/en-us/books/rya...itW7sgD6J8Wyu9kP63y_5kHHjhxoCwZ0QAvD_BwE

Ryan Holiday interviewed me when he wrote it.

There is way to much BS and self promotion on both sides of this story. A blind man (or woman) could have seen to avoid the seller in question. If the story is as you said, then I feel for the lady, but the fact that she exceeded her husbands max bid shows a lack of trust in his judgment of firearms and how best to spend the family finances.

You have done your duty and informed the three people in the world that didn't already know, that the seller in question is questionable at best. I think we can let it go now.

John

I wish I could have warned the other 40 who left NEGATIVES that didn't know.

So I bid $1900 for a gun, maybe my high limit and my wife buys the gun for $5000 plus while I am out of town??? One thing is for sure, I will never go out of town again unless my wife is with me or the computer is disabled.

There are a few things to learn from this:

1. The good point on red flag-NO RETURN
2. Communicate with your wife
3. If it looks too good to be true...or too $$$.

I no longer buy guns on auctions, but I will contact the seller privately-
especially if he is like Leroy Merz in MN. Or of excellent similar character.




KheSanh-1971
5th Special Forces Group (ABN)

Well, the fraudulent seller just got another NEGATIVE from a guy that paid about $3,500 for a Luger that was faked.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1042425415

But the fraudulent seller is still selling on Gunbroker. Gunbroker has done nothing to stop him.

What's fake about the Luger? I don't know a thing about them.

I see he has several more items with the same over-hyped salesmanship. Are they all crooked?

Read the last negative comment from the buyer. Most likely.

Indeed. He is racking up negatives pretty regularly now. Interesting that he is an "A" rated seller. I wonder how far he has to slip to become a "B"?