doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Lindner Daly First/Second number sequence

Thanks to another member here, I recently came into possession of what appears to be a second series gun (HAL over crossed pistols) so after the Prussian government took away Lindner's use of the crown so they could use it for proof marks, yet there are no proof marks on the gun. Serial number is 458. That would (correct me if I'm wrong) suggest a production date of late 1891 or early 1892 giving a fairly firm date for a particular serial number.

Oh, Lovely find...... Not sure just how long it took H.A. Lindner & Associates and their subs to turn out one like this but unequivocally the scattergun was >>Vorrat<< / >>On-Hand<< in Lindner's shop between Jan 1893 - April 1893. Off the cuff, I don't remember the exact date when the proof laws took effect. Too, I seem to recall the >>Vorrat<< stamp may narrow the date to either just April or similar.

I am sure the Government came to H.A. Lindner on their knees beggin' him to change is Quality Control Stamp to this HAL variant. So he was almost 500 into the 2nd series after obliging the Proof Facility with his change in his Quality Control Stamp. Hence, more than likely Lindner's 2nd series commenced in 1891 or 1892 when the new proof rules were devised.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, how does the Vorrat mark narrow it down to early 1893? Who stamps it?

The >>Vorrat<< effort was a stop-gap measure to include all those historical & antique arms so that they could be conformal under the new German Proof Law effective April 1st, 1893. This provision allowed the aforementioned to be conformal under the new law to prevent their possible destruction when submitted for proof. Remember that the new law was a very progressive stance regarding weapons; tube steel was quickly evolving with leaps in steel technology but all this was coupled with the old methods of pattern welded tubes. Too, there was an idea circulating that just the application of the proof touchmarks was compromise the tubes. Many considered submission for proof of an antique weapon to be a death sentence. In the same vein, most did not want to purchase the >>Vorrat<< arms due to uncertainty of the new law & proof. @ this stage in the game, more than likely a liaison of the Proofmaster was sent with a set of dies to each gunsmith and applied the touchmarks. I really have no idea.......

So between January & April 1st or just for the month of March in 1893, someone applied the >>Vorrat<< touchmarks to all longarms on-hand, or the remainder were submitted for to the local Proof Facility. I will dig a bit more on it.

Again, getting in the weeds, I am just not sure how long it took to create a Lindner Grande Complication, but this longarm was on-hand in Lindner's shop in March of 1893.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Permitting or offering a weapon for the >>Vorrat<<( on-hand inventory or stock) was purely @ the discretion of the gunsmith and somewhat voluntary. But the other choice was that it must be submitted to the Proof Facility or the weapon was illegal to sale.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Gotcha. Thank you. I did not know about that wrinkle at all.

On May 19th, 1892, Germany saw the Reichstag pass the new German Proof law, which was made public on June 22nd, 1892. It became effective on April 1st, 1893.

I still recall some new information about the >>Vorrat<< stamp begin applied for a period of a month only? In retrospect, a month or a period from January 1st to April 1st, 1893 is splitting hairs and pretty much semantics...

Looks like the crossover in Lindner's stamps hovers around Nr. 450 in the 2nd series.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=468854&page=13

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>.......the crown/V Vorratszeichen proof exemption mark, which was only struck on guns ready for sale between January 4, 1893 (date of the order) and March31,1893. "The V stamps are to be destroyed after April 1, 1893" as the proof law was then fully effective.....<<

So it was a very late in the game addition....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>.....gun was on a wholesaler's or dealer's shelf in early 1893 ready for sale, between January 12 and March 31. It was a proof exem(p)tion mark, applied to guns already existing when the German proof law became effective April 1,1893....<<

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

So given that it’s a Daly, destined for the US, completed but not yet shipped at some point between those dates. If in production still during those dates, likely would have had to been sent to proof house. Seems likely there would have been a little leeway in terms of final finishing of a gun in that period getting the V stamp as opposed to being sent out for proofing.