doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Non Hal Daly 20ga with dates on flats

Hope this helps with dating the non Hal guns and who made them
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1027229854

That's a very interesting gun even it's its not a Lindner. Damn few 20 gauge made by anyone for Daly. .

Not a whole lot of touchmarks to juggle, with the script >>E.W.<< standing out.... And in an attempt to correlate those initials with a Suhl mechanic:


Ernst Weigand
Emil Weiss
Franz Emil Werner
Ernst Werner
Ernst Robert Wolf
Ewald Wolf
Ernst Wolf

I'd say that an E. Werner or E. Wolf would lead the pack but there is little to narrow the field.

Barrel Browner Emil Willig was probably involved.

Square crossbolt and quite long toplever seem to be a throwback to the original H.A. Lindner Daly's. This one looks to lack the polished look of a Lindner - Daly, but some of the original Lindner - Daly subcontractors might have been sourced for effort.

Boxed >>K<<s are noted on the tubes, which were more than likely sourced from Liège.

Also the engraver is not the typical one......

But it was made in Suhl in late Oktober 1923(10/23) and was number 140 for the month of Oktober. The Suhl proof facility had some sort of renovation in the early 1920s and in late 1923 the Suhl proof facility did use a ledger number for a period of about 6 months.

Plus on this Daly, they paid for the >>Nitro<< proof effort, which was atypical for previous Lindner - Dalys.

This is purely a Suhl A&D Body Action badged with >>Charles Daly<<.



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, to my uninformed eye, it looks like the same basic action as my CD Diamond 12 gauge from May 1925...serial number 11577....which kinda seems in appropriate sequence for a gun made 18-19 months later.

Canvas-Back:

It could be, but the Daly of which you are a custodian just reeks of quality but I just cannot see it in the subject Daly. Frames in the white were available to anyone who wanted one. The wood to frame fit just seems off and might be due to age.

Yours too has one of the boxed >>k<<s noting a single effort. Possibly the same maker.

So 10583 to 11577 over 19 months @ the end of WWI during a difficult period in German history? So that is 52 longarms a month? Maybe......

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

By 1923-1925 we are well into the roaring twenties. Markets in the US were booming.

Earlier it was speculated that mine was a product of Kreighof. Like many of them, without definitive markings it’s just a guess.

I found it interesting that CJO’s assement of my 1925 gun was that it was every bit the quality equal of my Lindners from the 1900-1905 era but with better quality steel. Where things had changed was the extent and difficulty of th engraving. The later gun has simpler and less extensive coverage, although what has been done was done to a high standard.

Kreighoff is a good guess with Röchling Steel.

I am not sure the year, but post WWI Simson had a monopoly in the Weimar Republic and I am not sure what the date was when other makers joined in the fray for funds.

Yes, from 1924 for 5(five) years the Weimar Republic saw a boom and it was referred to as the >>Golden Twenties<< but what about from 1923 - 1924? Still a big puzzle but the answers may lie with the Suhl Proof Facility? If the records exist for this period, the subject Daly 20 bore would be an easy search.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

From a economic boom standpoint, I was more thinking about the US market as that where the Daly's were destined for. Not that important what was going on in the Weimar Republic in 1923....it's what was happening in the US and in NYC.

A flurry of bidding activity on the 15th and 16th, with two bidders dominating the last 8 or so bids. Looks like they are now sitting quietly until 30 min before the auction closes. LOL

If i wasn't expecting delivery in the next 30 days of a new to me Lindner project gun, I might join the fray. At the same time, i already have a Daly 20 ga and more than a couple 26" barrelled guns including my Purdey. don't really need more. Wish I could shoulder the subject gun.

I realize that but mechanics were hungry and using whatever they could find/source for components from post WWI to say 1923. Germans were making them, not Americans. Simson had diversified and had an iron-clad weapons contracts and the mid 1920s was the heyday for Simson as they were racing cars, I believe Otto Reif was one of their drivers and some sort of manager, manufacturing weapons, bicycles and rubber baby buggy bumpers among other things.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I have a small data base of second series Lindner guns I have come across, about 90 guns. But I have not collected any info on the post Lindner/post WWI Dalys. Given the presence of the proof house date stamps, would be interesting to acquire some data points and see what that looks like for production quantities. Part of me has wondered if the post WW1 serial numbers were issued by Daly in their sequence or if they were the house numbers of the various makers. Someone probably already has figured that out.

Subject gun weighs 5 pounds, 1 ounce.