doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com George Newnham, 29 Commercial Road, London

Ted: He's used enough different shotguns by now to have a sense of the differences. He's also had some sucess up at the LOTW and knows what works up there.

I have a decent stockpile of appropriate shells so he'll be fine. He seems to appreciate older stuff too (considering the cars he's messing with). And, of course, luck always plays a role here too.

Delightful gun, Lloyd and I am sure that your son will be very happy with it.

Nigel Brown shows George Newnham at Commercial Road, Landport, Portsmouth c.1878 to c.1901.

The offset wrist pin shows Greener lever work (instead of a Scott spindle) that was used by Midland Gun Company amongst others as well as Greener’s themselves.

I posted a better image of the flats.

Close-up like this Lloyd

Sunlight is always the best, but early morning is limited. Here is what I can do with the lighting in my gunroom.

I believe you're right Dr. Drew, much tighter pattern than 2-iron. Any guess what the "WP" means that you highlighted?


Some more information on George Newnham (a blast from our past here):

Jeweler,
George Newnham and Co.Portsmouth,1874- circa 1941.
Cant tell you much about this maker/dealer,but of one thing we can be certain is that at least some of his guns were made by; Holloway of Birmingham.
We can be certain of this fact because Newnham featured in perhaps the most significant case ever heard in the British legal system concerning liability for injuries resulting from a burst gun barrel!
The case is listed as Woodburn Vs Newnham and Co;The case was heard before the Lord Chief Justice and a special jury November,19,20 and 21, 1929.
Witnesses called Include the owner of Newnham a Mr Godwin, The Gunmaker, Mr Holloway of Birmingham and amongst many others, The Birmingham Proof Master. To cut along story short, the technical evidence showed that the gun burst due to a barrel obstruction and was not due to a manufacturing or material defect. The Jury brought in a majority verdict in favour of the defendant, Newnham.
This most interesting case is detailed in "Game and Gun"; of December 1929;pages 584-589.The details of evidence and the photos of the burst gun, are worthy of review by those interested in researching the causes of burst barrels.

Last edited by Roy Hebbes; 05/08/14 02:38 PM.
Roy Hebbes

and this:

IGC info on geo Newnham for anyone interested:

Name George Newnham
Other Names Newnham Ltd; Newnham & Co
Address1 4 Greetham Street, Landport
Address2 29 Commercial Road, Landport
City/Town Portsmouth
County Hampshire
State/Region/Province
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun maker
Other Address
Dates 1866-1937
Notes

George Newnham was born in Portsmouth in 1834. He was recorded in the 1861 census living at 23 Marylebone Street, Portsmouth, with the Merrett family, he was married to Sarah (b.1834 nee Merrett) and they had a daughter named Sarah J (b.1856).
In the 1861 census George was described as a carpenter in the dock yard, but in 1866 he was recorded as a gun dealer at 4 Greetham Street, Landport, Portsmouth, Hampshire. A report says that he established his business at that address in 1854 but this is obviously incorrect.

In the 1871 census George was again recorded at 4 Greetham Street, but he described himself as a picture frame maker. Obviously, he also dealt in guns but probably not to any great extent. In the mid-1870s he was reportedly recorded in Gritham Street, Southsea, but this was almost certainly a mispelling and there was no Gritham Street in Southsea. In the late 1870s he moved to 29 Commercial Road, Landport, Portsmouth, he was recorded as a gun maker at this address in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses.

In 1905 George would have been 71 years old. It appears that at about this time he sold the business which became a limited company, Newnham Ltd. The Mt Godwin reported above clearly was the new buyer. The company was not recorded after 1937. George Newnham described himself as the manufacturer of Walker's Patent Oscillating Self-Acting Fast Grip Sporting Gun.

Other Info
The firm loaded Kynoch "Perfectly Gastight" Schultze cartridges under the name "Champion", they also sold Kynoch's "Deep Shell" cartridges, and cartridges under the names "Champion", "Keeper's Cartridge", "Special Game" (post 1927) and "Pegamoid".

Tim

Yep, definitely "British Best 3 Iron" Lloyd.

I've been accumulating initials on British barrels, representing either the tube or barrel maker. 'WP' is a new one I was trying to make it into William Palmer Jones but not likely.

Dr. Drew:

Just went through the gun down at MW Reynolds. The book (Nigel Brown's British Gunmakers, Volume 3) actually lists George Newnham for both address and serial numbers (yea!). Not alot of information past that however. Clearly pre-1887 and much earlier than the lowest number in the book (sn 2719 is the earliest identified), this one's 205x, so some 600-plus units(?) before that lowest number listed. Sadly, no patent-use information on the action and no other data (like different address dates) to help me with it further. The gun is nicely on-face, the weight is spot-on at 6lbs2.5, it has a longer LOP than advertised (almost 14 3/4) and it even has more choke than listed in the right tube (10 points). The triggers are very nice and the ejectors are both strong and timed perfectly. Mark also pointed out to me that the pad has been made with elephant leather(!) so...even more politically incorrect than just being old and having Damascus tubes.

Love that gun case. And that leather pad is exquisite, too!! Nice outfit Lloyd.

I was hoping someone who actually understood British proof marks would confirm, but IF the gun was pre-1887, and the barrels were choked, it would be marked (usually on the tubes just forward of the flats) with the bore (in your case 13 or 13B) and muzzle constriction (ie 14M) and NOT FOR BALL. Are the barrels choked?
It was definitely proved again 1896-1904 with a bore of 13/1 = .719" - .728" for 1 1/8 oz. MAX m

According to the seller, the gun has about two points of choke in each barrel. Lloyd says there is more than that, per measurement.

Hard to know from here if it came that way, or, was jug choked, later.

Best,
Ted

Not necessarily “jug choked”, Ted, as that implies a recess being formed before the choke to produce a constriction.

It has been re-bored twice from 13 to 13/1 and then 13/1 to .729 ( the final re-Proof might not have involved any bore enlargement and was perhaps purely precautionary).

Each time, by not letting the cutter or hone go all the way to the muzzle, the barrel borer has the opportunity to increase the choke by up to 10 thou.