doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Annealing brass

I have to form brass for my .33WCF 1886 Winchester from .45-70 brass using a .40-60 sizing die as an intermediate stage.

I anneal before each step, holding the case rims in my bare fingers while rotating the neck in a gas flame.

The need to let go of the rim when it starts to become uncomfortable, dropping the case into a water bucket, avoids any risk of over heating and softening of the case head.

It may not be very precise, but the annealing colours usually extend to just below the case shoulder.

Parabola,
Black powder Silhouette shooters created enough demand that Starline (and maybe others) started making 40-65 cases again. Unless you already have a significant quantity of 45-70 cases, you should be able to save at least one step in your 33 Winchester forming process. Of course, if you don't need to buy cases, the saving in time and trouble may not be worth the cost of 40-65 cases. It may be worth a look.
Mike

Well, I annealed the top third of 5 cases this morning, primed them, and loaded them with 30 gr. FFg with a tight fitting plug of rolled up paper towel on top of powder, tamped down tight. Results were less that what I desired, even though I got very good ignition and burn. The necks did not expand completely to chamber diameter. They did expand somewhat, maybe one-third the amount needed.

Next I will re-anneal these 5, load with the same charge of FFg, use a shorter paper plug/wad, fill the case with grits, and seal the case mouth with a wax plug. Results to come .......

Yes, the paper towel wad just not enough mass to give you the necessary pressure. Grits should help with the wax wad.

Stan,
I wonder why you are using black powder to fireform the cases? We knew it would require annealing and fireforming more than once (3 or4) to obtain straight walls, and the extra cleaning operations(washing) of black powder residue will add additional steps in the process. I recommend using a fast-burning smokeless pistol or shotgun powder with a 1/4 sheet of toilet paper tamped over it and the case filled with grits, worn out polishing media, corn meal, or cream of wheat, and another 1/4 sheet of toilet paper, Styrofoam (coffee cup), or wax to stop it off. The black powder not only leaves a lot of residues, but it takes up a lot of room needed for filler.
Mike

Mike, I was told by a friend who has fire-formed cases that it was his opinion that black powder gave better results. I don't mind the mess, if it is indeed better suited to the job. I knew from my past experiences with black powder that I wouldn't get into trouble with it. I have zero experience using reduced loads of fast burning pistol powders, or fire forming at all. Just trying to play it safe. I have read all my reloading life of the dangers of reduced loads possibly causing detonation.

I would gladly consider a smokeless load to do this, that someone had a safe and successful experience with in the past.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

FYI

Thank you, Ken!

I don't have any Herco. I do have Longshot, which has the same burn rate, according to my chart. Suggestions on a charge weight for the load with grits appreciated.

I have fireformed and necked down more cases than I can remember for wildcats and have used the same method for decades. I won't go into necking down, since it is much more complex. To expand anything, I set the cases in a flat pan of water to a point above the head of the case, take a propane torch and go up and down the rows, heating the exposed case until it is red, then tipping the case over into the water. Then I prime the case, use 3 or 4 gr of Bullseye, fill the case with cream of wheat and stick the neck into a bar of ivory soap and snap the plug off. Ivory is cheap and pure(remember?). Fire it off and you have a case, which is probably hard again at that point.

One thing I found when trying to make Paradox cases for an odd German Cape gun I had. Brass is very unforgiving. I started with 20 ga brass shells cut to length. annealed the mouth and loaded round ball rounds with a Paradox style crimp over the ball. Not excessive but just enough to hold it in place. The crimp was easy in the freshly annealed case. After one firing, I could not crimp the case without a new annealing. I gave up on that and simply glued the ball inside the case like an overpowder wadin a brass shotshell.