doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The pinfire game gun

Gene,

There were no mentions or descriptions of Lang’s pin-fire gun in The Field in 1854 and 1855, let alone any illustrations.

In 1854, the year we can be sure Joseph Lang had started to build and sell pin-fire fowling pieces, there was no mention of breech-loaders anywhere in the pages of The Field. Not even in Joseph Lang’s own advertisements, which ran in the July-December 1854 issues. This lack of any mention by Lang of his new breech-loader is curious in the extreme, as Lang was quite willing to use The Field to promote his business. Perhaps he was waiting for word-of-mouth feedback from customers using his new guns in the 1854-1855 shooting season, to address any concerns or flaws before actively promoting them—but this is only speculation on my part, in trying to understand Lang’s silence on the matter.

Lang’s advertisements remained unchanged in the January-April 1855 issues. In May 1855 Lang advertised needle guns and Flobert’s rim-fire, but not yet his pin-fire guns. It was not before the 21 June issue of 1856 that Lang finally included, in his first advertisement of the year, mention of his breech-loader, albeit rather obliquely:

“Guns by Purday [sic], Moore, Lancaster, Lang, S. Nock, Forsyth, as also several genuine Joe Manton’s, warranted, at LANG’S, Gun Manufactory, Cockspur-street.
N.B. — Single and Double Rifles, as also the improved Breech-Loading Guns and Rifles and Revolvers, on the most approved make. 22, Cockspur-street, London.”

The advertisement was repeated, spelling corrected, in the 28 June issue, throughout July, and in the 9 August issue. There were no further Lang advertisements in 1856.

From all other advertisements and from articles and letters on guns and shooting appearing in The Field, one would hardly believe breech-loading fowling-pieces existed, let alone had been in use across the Channel for decades. The subject was singularly ignored. Then, in the 1 November 1856 issue, a cryptic response to a query from “Major R” was published in the To Correspondents section, “— It is a French invention; we never shot with one, therefore cannot give an opinion.” Unfortunately The Field’s practice of not including the original question is unhelpful, but it appears Major R may have been seeking information on the pin-fire gun.

In the 20 December 1856 issue, also in the To Correspondents section, a more informative reply to a query from “Capt. B” was provided, which at least indicated the Editor was familiar with the subject of Lefaucheux and Beringer guns:

“Capt. B. — The patent for the breech-loading fowling pieces was taken out about the year 1848, by M. Lefaucheux, of Paris, and effectually brought before the world in 1850. They have been manufactured in Liège for the Patentee. Several improvements have since been made, but not with any material change; except Beringer’s, which drops the barrel down by the action of moving the guard on one side; the other improvement being the tubes with a nipple attached, so that the gun can be turned into an ordinary gun to load from the muzzle — which tubes are made of brass, and fit exact in the barrels where the cartridges go when loading at the breech. The Lefaucheux gun acts by moving a lever (which lies flat against the bottom of the breech end of the barrel) on one side, which drops the barrel.”

Finally, in the 20 December 1856 issue, in the Shooting section under the heading Breech-loading Shot Guns, the following innocuous-sounding question appeared: “Sir, – If any of your numerous correspondents have used the breech-loading shot guns, would they be so good as to say what they think the advantages or disadvantages of them may be? Curious.” In hindsight this was the proverbial starting-gun, whereby the subject of the pin-fire would begin to occupy a substantial portion of The Field’s shooting columns.

The article or writings you may be referring to, might be John Henry Walsh’ s book “The Shot-Gun and Sporting Rifle,” published in 1859. The book does describe and illustrate Lang’s gun. Walsh became The Field’s shooting editor in late 1857, but he was working for the paper earlier than that. As Walsh and The Field became somewhat synonymous with shooting matters after that, the confusion in later writings might be understandable.

I’d be happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, but I have gone though The Field from 1853 to 1870 in great detail.

Thanks Stephen. And what you said about Lang and advertising his pin fire is true - almost identical comments were made in the Reilly history, chapter *23 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang.

I think that the article I'm looking for was published in "British Rural Sports" in 1854-55? entitled "Breech Loader" possibly written by "Stonehenge" (Walsh). This is the article which would be worth reposting:

This from January 02,1858, "The Field". One of the key points in the letter discussed barrels "actually made in this country" and seems to bear out contentions by prominent gun historians that virtually all early pin-fire barrels in Uk in the 1850's came from Liège. The Reilly history chapter above comments on this and speculates that Hodges got his barrels and lumps for his original gun constructed after Crystal Palace Exhibition from Belgium. Hodges, of course, sold the gun to Lang as a prototype for Lang's 1854 subsequent center-break pin-fire creation.



And this letter from January 09, 1858, "The Field" written by Joseph Lang himself which I believe identifies the article in question:



This letter from November 1856 also is interesting:



I'll add that Reilly definitively began to advertise "Fusils a Bascules" in August 1856. I think he was the very first; Holland advertised something related to breech loaders at that time but it' not clear what he was marketing - possibly Dryse needle guns. Reilly's long letter published December 26, 1857 in "The Field" is educational. I'll post the text here transcribed to save eyes reading the old print - much of this was incorporated into the Reilly history.
...Note the last paragraph - Reilly's sarcasm directed at UK cartridge makers
...Note Reilly's claim that until "quite recently" (1857?) the pin-fire was a curiosity. Well - he gambled because he advertised in Jun 1857 that he had 100 pin fires in construction awaiting orders.

The Breech Loader

Sir, - Your correspondents writing against breech-loaders all show by their own letters how little they really understand the principles upon which these guns are made.

This system differs from other novelties inasmuch as it has been extant about a quarter of a century and it has been in operation in some sporting circles these twenty years. All the patents have long ago fallen in; anybody who does not object to the expense of the necessary tools and machinery, and who can teach his workmen, may set to work and make these guns. The great facts of safety and durability have been fully established by the wear and tear of a long period than a good fowling piece is generally supposed to continue serviceable in hard shooting; and the breech-loader, which requires less care in cleaning, etc., exhibits less appearance of deterioration than the capper cap-gun after the same length of time in hard wear.

The only objections worth of any notice that have been adduced are those imperfections known to exist in the very worst specimens – the cheap Belgian and French guns, many of which kill very well, and last a fair time, inferior as they may be. The objection upon which such stress is laid – the relative sizes of the bore of the barrels, the interior of the cartridge – has had ample consideration ere this; and it does not necessarily follow, if errors have been made in early attempts, that they are to be continued. The point at issue with the few experienced London makers is not simply whether the bore of the barrels should be the same size as the wadding used in loading the cartridges, but as to whether the bore should be a size smaller to fit the wadding still tighter. It is obvious, if the calibre of the barrels be larger, the charge passes through them too freely, and there will not be sufficient friction to give strength to the shooting; on the other hand, by making the gauge of barrels to small, recoil will be increased; and the shooting, though excessively strong, may not be regular and close. The happy medium has to be arrived at; and this may be most effectually done in the trials before finishing, which guns of every construction turned out by any careful maker should be submitted.

Very few of the barrels for breech-loaders actually made in this country have been chambered with an abrupt termination, or shoulder, to meet the inner end of the cartridge-case; almost every one has been eased off at a moderate angle. Cutting or reducing the length of cartridge-cases is a waste of time; it is better to fill up with waddings. When using light charges, a thick felt wad over the powder, and a thin wad over the shot (both ungreased), and the closing tool then used to turn over the edge, the charge will be held sufficiently tight without any gum or cement, if the cartridges are taken out in a proper kind of carrier; but if it is intended to knock them about in the pocket, or if it is likely one may walk about for an hour without getting a shot, the wadding must be fastened in more securely. Nr. 15 (16 and 14) cartridges will only contain 3 or 3 ½ drams if powder and 1 1/4 oz. of shot with thin wads (in fact barely so much; No. 12 loaded with the same quantities, fills up well with a thick felt wadding over the powder. Under any circumstances there is no necessity for cutting cartridges shorter than they are made.

Some of the arguments which the opponents of the breech-loading system bring forward against its soundness and stability might have been received ten or fifteen years ago, when the originality of the design and curious simplicity of the construction rather took us by surprise. It had not then been so undoubtedly proved, as by the long experience we have had since in extensive and constant use, that the solid flat false breech which the breech ends of the barrels close against is as sound, as durable, and for all purposes of resistance of the charge, as secure and perfect as a breech permanently screwed into the tubes themselves; and they undergo the same proof as muzzle-loaders.

The explosion of this charge in the breech does not cause such a severe strain upon the mechanism holding the barrels in position as may at first be supposed; the expansive force finds the point of the least resistance, upon which it unites all its efforts; therefore it is an ounce of shot and the air to be displaced from the barrel, opposed to the whole weight of the piece. No other gun can possibly concentrate so fully all the force of the powder up in its charge of shot, nor so completely in the rifle give the spiral motion to the bullet.

Doubtless the facility with which the barrels can be reloaded, the breech ends held up to view, and a clear sight obtained through the bore, exposing this entire action in a manner so much at variance with previously-conceived ideas, has been and must continue to be a cause of distrust until actual proof and frequent trials reconcile one to these peculiarities. It may require the attestation of intimate friends ocular demonstration in the field and something beyond the recommendations of the manufacturer to carry conviction to the minds of sportsmen, upon a matter without precedent to guide their judgement, and on which they have been left so thoroughly in the dark. Until quite recently purchases were made from sheer curiousity, in the most disbelieving spirit as to their utility, but admitting the ingenuity and apparent goodness of this workmanship. The desire was to possess something new, taking its merits upon trust; and it has often been, with no less surprise than gratification that all doubts were dispelled, and the new gun found to be more agreeable to use and possessed of greater power than those on the old plan.

Practical experience, beyond our most sanguine expectations, gives the palm to these breech-loaders for carrying their shot both close and strong. Estimating their powers by the French and Belgian guns that have passed through out hands many years ago, we thought they would be covert guns for short distances; but it soon became apparent with superior workmanship and finer qualities of metal for the barrels, that extraordinary shooting powers might be achieved with the breech-loader; so that they not only came up to, but surpassed the ordinary fowling-piece, and delivered their shot closer and stronger than any other gun we have ever made. Of testimony to this effect we have abundance, some of which is conveyed to us per letter may be referred to. It is to actual and continued experience we should give our confidence not to vague surmises and unfounded theoretical deductions.

Everything that disturbs existing interests is due to meet with opposition at its early introduction; the difficulties it has to encounter are some proof of its value, should it survive. There must be intrinsic merit and sterling worth in this particular system of breech-loader, otherwise it could never have made good its way under such adverse circumstances as it has had to contend against. There have been good grounds for prejudices for it has has been badly made, though richly ornamented and, in fact has not been properly understood by the manufacturers until of late years... Moreover, there has been until recently considerable difficulty about obtaining an ample supply of cartridge-cases, and no one knows better than myself the persuasion it required to induce our apathetic English to undertake their manufacture, although a model was put into their hands that they had only to follow a pattern without the least exercise of the inventive faculty.

. . New Oxford-street, Dec. 15 (1857) . . . . .E.M. Reilly

My understanding is that John Henry Walsh (Stonehenge) wrote his Manual of British Rural Sports in 1855 (as recounted by him in a later preface), and the Wikipedia entry for Walsh states that "In November 1855, his comprehensive and illustrated Manual of British Rural Sports was published and was enthusiastically received. This was the first of many editions. In April 1856 the second edition was published which corrected minor errors. In the same year he joined the staff of The Field, and became its editor at the close of 1857."

I don't have a copy of the first edition, but the copies I have seen all have a publication date of 1856, the same year the second edition was published (which I do have). I do not know how different the two editions are, but I suspect the changes were minimal. The preface of the 2nd edition is dated October 1855. The book does illustrate Lang's gun, which interestingly enough appears to show the classic Lefaucheux-type double-bite action, and not the single-bite action (with rising stud) usually associated with Lang's guns of the 1850s. I cannot say how accurate the illustration is, whether Lang was building both types, or whether Lang was obtaining partially finished guns from the Continent. More room for research, I think.

The book does give a description of Lang's breech-loading gun (paragraph number 61, starting on page 20), and there is no mention of the Needham needle-fire or the Lancaster gun (as there is in Walsh's The Shotgun and Sporting Rifle, 1st edition in 1859).

Here is the illustration from the Manual of British Rural Sports (2nd ed.):




Walsh was certainly familiar with the pin-fire when he wrote his book, though it does not appear that he had much influence over The Field and its thoughts about the pin-fire before he took on the mantle of shooting editor.

The 4th edition was published in 1859; the 5th in 1861; the 6th in 1865; the 7th in 1867; and the 14th in 1879.

Here is Wikipedia on Walsh - an amazing man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Walsh

Lang per above might be referring to an article in "Manual of British Rural Sports" 1856 and reprinted about 18 times. And Stephen notes this article is really dated to 1855. If so, then the time span between the release of this article and the first Reilly ad for a pin-fire is basically one year. Technology race was on! Stephen as usual you are spot on in research.

What is clear - the casual gun histories that claim Hodges and Lang created the center break pin-fire guns in UK in 1852 after Crystal Palace are utter lazy balderdash.

is there any evidence of pin fire guns being used in the late war of yankee agression?

Ed, both sides used pin-fire revolvers, a subject well-researched and documented. With long guns, I suspect the answer is probably none. Pin-fire long guns were not developed for military use in breadth and numbers that would have interested either side in the conflict. I'm aware of a few rifle prototypes produced for evaluation by European militaries but with not much success. By the time British pin-fire sporting shotguns came down in price and increased in availability, they had been replaced by the central-fire, so North America saw few pin-fire shotguns being imported, and fewer still locally made, as discussed much earlier in this thread. While the revolver side of the pin-fire story is well known, it is the lack of information on sporting guns that led me to follow this subject.

To go with the illustration from the Manual of British Rural Sports (2nd ed., 1856) above, here is Walsh's description of the Lang gun in its entirety:

The Breech-Loading Gun.– A gun of this description was introduced some years ago by a French maker, but which was little known in this country until recently taken up by an English gunmaker, Mr. Lang, of Cockspur-street, London, who has succeeding in improving upon the principle to such an extent as to produce a really useful gun, which can be discharged four times while a common fowling-piece can be loaded and discharged once. The principle is exceedingly simple and beautiful, but it requires good workmanship to carry it out; and certainly in that respect Mr. Lang has done full justice to the original idea. The following is a description of this most ingenious invention, which will be better understood by a reference to the engraving: – The barrels are united to the stock by a strong hinge, which is set at liberty by moving the lever (a, fig. 1), a quarter turn to the right, as shown in fig. 2. This turn releases a bolt which connects the barrels firmly to the stock when ready for firing, as shown in fig. 1. After turning the lever, the barrels may be raised from the stock, as shown in fig. 2, and are then ready for loading, for which purpose a cartridge is used, containing within itself all the requisites for the gun’s discharge. These cartridges, which will be presently described, are carried loosely in the pocket of the shooting-coat, or in a properly-made belt, and supersede the necessity for powder-flask, shot-pouch, cap-holder, wadding, &c., &c. In loading, the shooter turns the lever, the barrels then raise themselves by their own weight, and he places into each the cartridge, turns back the lever, and the gun is ready for use, the whole operation being only an affair of a few seconds. On reloading, it is necessary to draw out the discharged cartridge before inserting a fresh one; but the time required for this is scarcely more than that consumed in removing the exploded cap before putting on the fresh one in an ordinary gun. In Mr. Lang’s gun, the old breech-chamber is entirely done away with, and the barrels merely drop down against the flat surface of the false-breech, just as in the revolving pistol. They are bored larger at the breech-end to admit the cartridge, the calibre of which should exactly correspond with that of the rest of the barrel, and thus form with it a continuous tube; the barrel, therefore, has a shoulder at the part where the cartridge ends. The cartridge itself is composed of a thick brown paper-cylinder two inches long, and varying in bore according to that of the gun; one end is open to receive the charge, which is the same as in the ordinary gun, the other is closed by a brass capsule, which overlaps the paper nearly a quarter of an inch, forming a strong joint. In the middle of the inner surface of this capsule, is a small brass chamber, firmly supported in its place, and containing the small cap which fires the charge. A brass pin eight-tenths of an inch in length, and about a line in diameter, passes through the capsule and one side of the small chamber, and receives the cap on its point in the same way as the the ordinary nipple. The other end of the pin projects beyond the cartridge about one-fourth of an inch, and lies in a notch between the barrel and the false-breech, beyond which it stands up to receive the blow of the striker. All this will be more readily understood by a reference to the engraving (figs. 3 and 4). The cartridge-case is sold with the cap, all ready for receiving the powder and shot; and this is the best plan of using it, because then dry powder may always be obtained, and they are as easy to charge as an ordinary gun. Their price is a penny a-piece, containing a cap; but, as the cases may be recapped, and used many times, the additional price is very trifling indeed. The advantages of this gun are manifest, and to all those who value rapid and safe loading as highly as it deserves, I should strongly recommend a trial of it, since it appears to me to supply a great desideratum, and if as good in practice as it appears to me to be theoretically perfect, its invention will be almost as great an era in gun-making as that of the detonator itself. Time, however, and time alone, must decide its merits.

This is the earliest published description of the pin-fire game gun and pin-fire system in Britain that I have, written in 1855, a year after Lang's gun appeared on the market.

other rare and unusual english orfrench made long guns, such as terry breech loading carbines and of course whitworth target rifles made it here at the time...

figured maybe pin fire long guns as well, or not...

Ed, go back and read the Reilly history on p. 94, 95 of this line (all 120 pages of it). The earliest known Reilly pin-fire center-break gun is SN 10054 made in September 1856. It is possibly the oldest extant UK made center-break gun in existence. It is a15 bore SxS rifle.



Also courtesy of Aaron Newcomer, this 1855 pin fire rifle cartridge with Reilly's name on it (no doubt imported from France). This was the absolute infancy of the pin-fire in UK. Why this cartridge exists is a question. (Is it the date of the cartridge? The date Reilly first made a pin-fire?).



Not to take away from this excellent line on pin-fires but just for information since yo asked: Also in that history are several chapters dealing with various rifles Reilly made and serial numbered. These include:
1850's:
Classic 2 and 3 band Enfields
Sporterized Enfields
Gen. Jacobs SxS percussion rifle with exploding bullet.
Maj. Nuthall's patent rifling (developed and built by Reilly) (rounded grooves to prevent fouling)
.451 Enfield target rifles
Capt. Scotts progressive twist rifles
Gen. Ray's pattern brigade rifle
Prince Patent breech loader
Terry Patent breech loader

1860's:
Green Bros patent breech loader (sole manufacturer) (1862-1868)
Snider's (1866-1874)
Reilly-Comblain breech loaders (sole manufacturer) (1868-1872)

1870's:
Martini-Henry's
Swinborn-Henry's
George Gibbs "Farquharsen's" Patent (1878-82)
The Soper Rifle (sole agent for London 1880)

1890's:
Lee-Speeds.

what we need is a pitcher of one of us jonny rebs holdin ah pin fire double gon...

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ppmsca.32605/