doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dating early 20th Century French Shotguns

Good afternoon. Need help identifying the manufacturer of the gun. The barrels have Saint-Etienne markings and Suhl markings as well.
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZLZo81SFdpyeAeJ26[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/e3MiU7N7uWLETxRe7[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Eu5dzbzGNeGzwDJ7[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/yWeQ772btKLkGNxi6[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/oTaeq1apQqjBv7mh9[/img]

general observations: the gun appears to be a normal basic grade french gun - built with the v-c type helice fastening system....the lever markings do not misspell the word helice (as many such examples do - might be a later production). T powder, 65mm chambers - so built after 1912-1920 (?), acier martele - i have seen before, but don't recall any details. the oval D-R mark on the water table is not familiar to me, nor are the very stylish circled initials on the barrel flats - which i read to be a stylized A R. two additional marks are "suhl"....over/under stamped, at the PT on the left chamber, and the word "special" on the right chamber - but no markings that would correspond to having been through proofing there.

another french gun with many questions, and an unknown number of answers....

best regards,
tom

I'll add a couple of observations to Tom's commentary above:

-- "Acier Martele Extra" on the action = Extra hammered steel (on the action). All the gun makers and barrel makers seemed to have their favorite descriptions of steel. I haven't seen this one before but so far can't associate it with any particular gun maker.


-- "Acier Spécial" on the barrel flats = Special steel; Never seen the motif and it does not look French.


-- "Acier JOMPc" on the barrels = who knows (possibly JOMPxxx & Cie?) but this is a world record for three different steels advertised on the gun. And this gun lacks the usual lower oval of advertising ("Non pour Balle" or something else).


"prouvé poudre pyroxyleé" - presumably "proofed for smokeless powder" but I believe the French term is actually "poinçons d'épreuve" - put perhaps without the poinçons (stamps) - "prouvé" (past tense of prouvér - to prove) can be used (though I have never seen this stamp on a Saint-Étienne gun).


-- "Choke Rectifie Fanget & Cie"?): Chokes bored by Fanget - well-known barrel maker in Saint-Étienne. See below post from a different gun with that stamping:



-- "Helice Depose der Iriele" or "Helice Iriele per Depose?": The word "Helice" was never actually patented by Verney Carron so many firms used the word. Dépose of course means "registered." "DER IRIELE" is beyond my ken. Why a German preposition on a French gun; "Iriele " isn't a word (might it be an abbreviation of some sort?).


-- The gun's serial number is 679. This maker did not produce a lot of guns apparently.


-- Traditional French stock with half pistol grip and sling rings.

There is a certain crudeness about the engravings and stampings.

Ron - look at the bottom plate of the gun just in front of the trigger guard. Many French guns had the retailer's name stamped there.

I'm really grateful to you. Thanks for your help, it's very nice. I will search further.

Salut,

Pour le marquage sur la clef, je pense à HELICE RIFLE DEPOSE DR.

Merci Fab: Ça a du sens; je peux le voir maintenant. mais que signifie DR ?

DR sont les initiales du fabricant de l'arme.
Par contre, je n'ai aucune information sur celui-ci.

https://www.naturabuy.fr/UNIQUE-DAR...IRE-CAL-20-1896-juxta-item-10949239.html
Un Darne monté avec des canons Didier Drevet de 1896.
L'unité de chambrage est en mm.

Merci Fab. The gun was numbered and stamped after two earlier DD SN'd guns were chambered in cm confirmed by photos. Is it possible the Darne SN is "657?" For the record I'll post the ad and some photos so they won't disappear when the gun is sold.

AVIS AUX COLLECTIONNEURS: très rare, et vraiment unique, venez visiter cette piece de collection,
il s agit d un DARNE/DIDIER DREVET, cette association a eu lieu d après les archives en 1896 ( canon frappè 1896)

il est aussi en poudre noire (POINCON PS) et chambrè en 65mms.

le canon est marquè des medailles de monsieur et madame didier et drevet canonier stephanois il est ecrit sur le canon medaille d or 1855, le canon a donc ètè fabriquè en 1896 par didier drevet, avant que monsieur darne ne depose d autres brevets et fabrique ses propres canons.

Vous remarquerez que le cran de suretè ce trouve a l arriere et qu il y a ecrit FEU au dessus du cran.
La boiserie est en une seule piece , on est donc la sur une piece fabriquèe avant 1900 a poudre noire, et donc piece exceptionelle en CATEGORIE D.

passons aux mensurations de cette piece de musèe (totalement fonctionelle et en très bel etat voir photos); longueur totale 112 cms; longueur canon 72 cms; distance de la premiere gachette a l arriere de la crosse 36,5 cms

il y a eu une petite reparation au niveau du talon de la crosse, que l on devine sur les photos au niveau de la plaque de couche qui est en corne, l embout de la longuesse est aussi en corne,

une belle piece a acquerir pour les collectionneurs en recherche de pieces d execption

I think the "65" on DD 1886 - 7653 is actually a "6.5" without the decimal. The 6 and the 5 look suspiciously far apart. This has happened in other guns especially the 1899 - 8855. Compare it to the "65" on 1919 gun.