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#6362 - 02/27/03 03:55 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Oscar Gaddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 774
Loc: Urbana, Illinois
Geno

It's usually very difficult if not impossible to count them directly as you cannot usually distinguish between the welds between the individual ropes and the welds at the edge of the riband. The size of the swirl pattern on crolle Damascus is about the only way to tell. The size runs from about .5 to .6 inch width on two-iron to about 1/8 inch width on 6-iron.

Oscar

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#6363 - 02/27/03 04:25 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
King Brown Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 9280
Loc: Nova Scotia
I'm awed by the knowledge and generosity on this board but this takes the cake! Thanks.

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#6364 - 02/27/03 04:48 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
RPr Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Indiana
I want to thank Oscar and The rest of you folks.

I find the BBS fasinating. Well worth my meager donation.

You can bet I will be looking at the old barrels a lot closer now.

RPr

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#6365 - 02/27/03 04:53 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Geno Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
Oscar, I thout about Crolle too. Fingerprint patterns must be the same within these 2....6-iron damascus. Am I right?
_________________________
Geno.

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#6366 - 02/27/03 04:58 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Geno Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
Following the fingerprint patterns there are 3-iron (left) and 6-iron (right) damascus on your second photo from top.
_________________________
Geno.

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#6367 - 02/27/03 05:00 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Tuomo Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 851
Loc: Pyhtää, Finland
The Chain Damascus is amazing. Is in the market maker, which make new doubles with Chain Damascus barrels?

It would be cool to own over/under double with Chain Damascus barrels. It would make friends jealous. :p

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#6368 - 02/27/03 05:13 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Oscar Gaddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 774
Loc: Urbana, Illinois
Geno

Both of those samples came from the same barrel so they both have exactly the same pattern. Your observation just goes to show the difficulty of counting the "irons" in the pattern. Each rope or iron produces the left side of one whorl and the right side of another. You can easily see the boundry of a rope on these samples, but you cannot see and identify with certainty the boundry of the riband and count the number of ropes (irons) in the riband which is by definition the number of "irons" in the pattern.

Oscar

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#6369 - 02/27/03 05:56 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
anthony Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 136
Loc: central arkansas
Thanks,Oscar for the great pictures! After close examination of my G grade Lefever,I think it is a variation of the star damascus instead of twist.

Tony

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#6370 - 02/27/03 06:40 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Dave Katt Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 2038
Loc: Western Ohio
I was extremely surprised when I was told recently that twist was stronger than Damascus. Now he may be wrong, but I always thought it was the other way around. I have often wondered on my two Bakers one an "A" and the other a "B" grade the twist barrels of the "B" are almost 1/16" thicker at the breech than the "A" Damascus. Are they thicker because twist barrels are weaker and to make them stronger they made them thicker?

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#6371 - 02/27/03 07:40 PM Re: Twist or Damascus
Oscar Gaddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 774
Loc: Urbana, Illinois
Dave K.

If twist barrels are stronger than Damascus, why were twist barrels cheaper to make and cost less than Damascus, and why are they always found on the lowest grade guns that manufacturers offered? IMHO, the person who told you that is sadly misinformed.

A common source of this misinformaton is the confusion of Belgian and British Laminated Steel barrels. The top barrels in the famous Birmingham Proof House destructive tests in the 1890s were three-iron British Laminated Steel barrels. British Laminated Steel barrels were made the same way as Damascus barrels but had higher (at least 60% ) high quality steel in the composite.

On the other hand, Belgian made common twist barrels were labeled Laminated Steel in many cases. This has led to confusing these two barrels called by the same name, but which are completely and widely different in quality.

Oscar

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