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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,752 Likes: 436
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,752 Likes: 436 |
this is very much dated information, and it's prime utility is reserved for those who have ratholed some of the old dupont powders....but, for those of us who meet those qualifications, this is a gold mine of low pressure data. michael's post regarding the use of 2 3/4" data in 2 1/2" hulls with roll crimps, opens the door to many useful loads - IF YOU STAY IN LOW PRESSURE TERRITORY.... http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/imr_reloading.pdfbest regards, tom Thanks for posting this. I've never seen it and there are more SR7625 loads in there than I have seen everywhere else collectively. I have 3-4 lbs of it in need of a good use.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/qclHjMQ.jpg)
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34 |
I loaded a bunch of Fiocchi shells trimmed down to 67mm. That is slightly longer than 2 1/2”. It is 2.6378”. 2.5” is 66.04mm. So less than a mm longer. Why you may ask? 65 and 67mm CIP shells are approved for use in 2 1/2” chambered guns in proof. I was able to load with standard wads, common powder and Fiocchi primers. And I can load them on my progressive loaders.
I have sent several strings of test loads off for testing pressures and velocity. Until I get those results I’m just waiting. But I used Unique powder in a 1 and a 1/16 ounce loads with loads which would have been very modest with 1 1/8 ounce. For what I shoot 1 1/8 ounce is overkill. Unless I get extreme velocity variations I will be very happy. Everything fits, I can get more of what I need and don’t need to stock yet another special use wads.
You can roll crimp a 2 3/4 “ load in a 2 1/2” hull. But Fiocchi are not that long to begin with and there is a lot of internal volume in that straight wall case. Trim few down and try loading them at 67mm. Have them tested for pressure and velocity. Being able to just use a normal star crimp speeds up loading from a box now and then to loading hundreds an hour. And I had two 8 pound jugs of unique powder on hand. I trimmed the Fiocchi hulls down to about 2.53" and used 20.5 grs of Clays, a 1 oz load and the CS12S Comp Special Short 12 g. That made the load column way too short so I tried adding 2 .125 card under the wad and roll crimped the hull. Loads felt very light (6.8 lb gun), left a lot of un-burnt powder and given how far behind I was on the skeet birds, was probably at 1100 FPS or slower. I certainly appreciate everyone's input so far, but it probably going to be a moot point within the next month or so. I'm buying a used Mec 600 JR and with the MEC adapter for 2.5" hulls I should be able to use star crimps which I suspect will solve many of my problems and if I don't already have a fully adjustable bar for the MEC, I'll buy one. As a long time cartridge reloader I'm used to a fully adjustable powder dispenser so relying on the bushing system is very frustrating for me due to the relative lack of precision of the powder charge. I didn't start loading smokeless shotguns until about a year or so ago .
I have become addicted to English hammered shotguns to the detriment of my wallet.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302 |
Something is amiss with that load.
Is that wad suitable for a Fiocchi hull?
I ask because I shoot many 1oz Clays powder loads, and never have un burnt powder.
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34 |
Something is amiss with that load.
Is that wad suitable for a Fiocchi hull?
I ask because I shoot many 1oz Clays powder loads, and never have un burnt powder. Possibly, but I think it is more the roll crimp opening up before a star crimp would have and lowering the pressures. I had similar results when I started loading 2.5" 16 g with fiber wads which mostly went away when I went to a plastic wad
I have become addicted to English hammered shotguns to the detriment of my wallet.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,738 Likes: 493
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,738 Likes: 493 |
From Hodgdon website. For Fiocchi Hulls, 2 3/4".
Gauge: 12
Lead Shot 1
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 18.2 7,700 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 19.6 8,900 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 21 10,200 PSI 1,290
I would load Unique if you can find some. 1 1/8 ounce fits in a 67MM hull but is tight, I load 1 1/16 ounce, with very good results. By reducing from 1 1/8 ounce to 1 1/16 ounce I am sure the pressures are reduced. Powder does burn well. By how much I wont know until my test results come back form Precision. This data is directly form the Alliant website. I picked the Windjammer and Fig 8 loads as I had tons of those wads on hand and the 6,400-7,000 psi was well within my target pressures. I also loaded some 1 ounce loads but am awaiting their tests as well. That might be my best load as long as the velocity does not vary too much.
--- 1 1/8 1,200 Fio 616 Unique Versalite 24 7,100 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,250 Fio 616 Unique Versalite 25 7,800 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,200 Fio 616 Unique Fig 8 or DR RF8 23.5 7,000 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,250 Fio 616 Unique Fig 8 or DR RF8 24.5 7,600 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,200 Fio 616 Unique RXP 12 22.5 7,200 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,250 Fio 616 Unique RXP 12 23.5 8,200 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,200 Fio 616 Unique WAA12, DRA12 or DR XL1 1/8 23.5 6,800 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,250 Fio 616 Unique WAA12, DRA12 or DR XL1 1/8 25 7,800 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,200 Fio 616 Unique Windjammer 24 6,400 - View this recipe
--- 1 1/8 1,250 Fio 616 Unique Windjammer 25.5 6,900 - View this recipe
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 353 Likes: 34 |
[quote=KY Jon]From Hodgdon website. For Fiocchi Hulls, 2 3/4".
Gauge: 12
Lead Shot 1
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 18.2 7,700 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 19.6 8,900 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Clays Out of Stock Fio. 616 GU 1225 21 10,200 PSI 1,290 /quote]
I'm going to stick with Clays because I have about 7 lbs left. The CS12S Comp Special Short 12 g is a Gulandi wad
I think the roll crimp and the need to put two .125 cards to get the right load column height resulted in insufficient compression to get a complete powder burn.
Here is the 7/8 oz load data, but seems to require a star crimp as well.
GAUGE: 12
LEAD SHOT 7/8
Manufacturer Powder Primer Wad Grs. Pressure Vel. (ft/s)
Hodgdon Universal OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 BP Dispersor-X 20.5 6,700 PSI 1,050
Hodgdon Universal OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 Fio. TL 1 21.5 7,000 PSI 1,175
Hodgdon Universal OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 Rem. R12L 23.5 6,900 PSI 1,175
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a compilation of low pressure 12 g loads like there is for the 16 g. And I remain surprised that reloading smokeless shotgun ammo is more complicated than rifle & pistol reloading.
I have become addicted to English hammered shotguns to the detriment of my wallet.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,738 Likes: 493
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,738 Likes: 493 |
Shotgun loading is complex because there are so many different combinations of primers, hulls, wads, shot weights and powders. My rifle powders are limited to six I think. Last count I have 20 plus powders for shotgun shells. Might be 30 now.
One thing to do is print off load combinations from Hodgdon and Alliant. They do add and drop loads fairly often. A tested load is a tested load as long as they don’t reformulate anything. Plus you might come across a supply of wads, hulls or wads not often seen these days. Having safe data on hand helps.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384 |
It's not complicated if you are loading 2 3/4 AA with 18gr.of red dot and an AA wad.low pressure short shells is another story .pb was a great powder to use but is discontinued some other good powders too.i went through this but I have 8 lbs of pb and I am loading 7/8 oz 12 ga loads and using bp wads.ane a lot of supplies are hard to get good luck.
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