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Lloyd3 Offline OP
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Mr. Nash: I can't blow-up my photography to a greater magnification than I already have, but...one can still increase (massively!) the magnification of the photography on Kirby Hoyt's webpage and...when you go to the photographs on his webpage showing the top of this gun, there it is. Very clearly on the left tube (the right tube is better matched & obscured by engraving) are the seams of the replaced metal that filled those pinfire-ignition holes. Very artfully done, but clearly still there. This gun is/was a pinfire first!

Thank you for that insight! The next question that comes to my mind is...could one fit dual-fire hammers to it? That would be pretty darn neat.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 06/04/23 11:27 PM.
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Talk about timing, just read an article online from the Vintage Guns Journal, dated November 10 of 2021 (by Diggory Hadoke?) about a Lang pinfire conversion, titled "Lang Game Changer". The article is about a forward-facing underlever gun built in 1863. That gun is strikingly similar to my current project (non-rebounding locks, same address on rib, horn butt, etc.). Converted (almost identically, by Lang's perhaps?) from pinfire & with a single bite, it's SN is 2729 and the markings on the barrel flats for this one are in an almost-legible script (mine aren't) saying "Proved and furnished by...". Much like on mine, that statement is unfinished. The author speculates that they were provided by E. C. Hodges, who reportedly had a very close business relationship with Joseph Lang at that time. Lang was evidently married to a Purdey daughter (Eliza)? The Prince of Wales also had one just like it, evidently (Lang SN 2725)? A small and slightly incestuous world back then, eh? In the article, Mr. Haydoke went on to shoot the gun successfully on driven pheasants, so... maybe I'm not too-far off course?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Lloyd3; 06/08/23 01:39 PM.
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Very interesting and it does correlate. E.C. Hodges of course was the Englishman who first made a Lefauchaeux-type center break breech loader as an apprentice to Lang in circa 1852 after the 1851 Crystal Palace world's fair. He offered the complete gun to Lang; Lang dithered and hemmed and hawed; The English gun fraternity was very conservative; but about 1853 Lang bought Hodges' gun and set about reverse engineering it. By January 1854 he had a commercial variant. And the rest is history.

Hodges never said where he got the barrels and lumps and suspicion is strong that all of that came from Liège including all of Lang's early stuff. Hodges went on to have a successful career making center-break actions for top level London gun-makers. If he made the action, however, his name usually is on it.

(All this is addressed in the Reilly history by the way).

*23 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang

This is not a detailed recounting of how Lefauceaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood.

Castor Lefaucheaux took out a patent for a break action gun in France in 1836. Several of these guns made their way to the UK over the years but were generally ignored or regarded as curiosities. However, at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition, Lefaucheaux showed a single barrel pin-fire center-break gun.*23a It created a lot of interest. Lefaucheaux did not take out a patent on the design in UK so it was free for the taking. The gun was rediculed by many of the UK gun establishment, in particular William Greener (senior), who called it a “French crutch gun.”

However, a young 18 year old apprentice gunsmith named Edward Charles Hodges*23b especially took notice. Following the closing of the fair, he embarked on a project to build a copy of the gun, which after some time was completed, probably one speculates in late 1852. It Is not known how he did this; did he buy a Lefaucheux (unlikely) or did he handle the gun and carefully take measurements and sketches? He could not have made the barrels himself so did he buy the barrels and lumps from Liège? There is no information on when Hodges completed his trial gun; neither he nor his sons ever commented. But, over the following few months he worked to convince Joseph Lang to buy his gun and to make and sell versions of it.

Joseph Lang had started out in the 1820’s essentially selling guns Joseph Manton sent to him on consignment. When Manton went bankrupt in 1826, Lang bought his left-over stock, barrel borers etc. For the next 25 years he made guns at 7 Haymarket Street, London.*23c By 1830 he had created a 28 yard shooting gallery in a neighboring building, which became well known, and even advertised access to two billards tables for his customers.*23d

In 1852 he moved his shop to 22 Cockspur Street where the company remained until 1874.*23e Joseph Lang died in 1869 and his firm was subsequently run by his son. Probably in 1853 after his move Lang finally succumbed to Hodges’ entreaties, bought Hodges' gun, and began working on the center-break concept. By early 1854 he had a working gun ready for sale which followed pretty much the design of Lefaucheaux’s original gun although beefing up parts of it. He also tried to make it look as much like a percussion gun as possible, with wooden fore-end, etc., no doubt thinking that familiarity in looks would help its acceptance. His gun, however, used one bite on the lump, where Lefaucheaux’s original concept used two. (Steve Nash)

Note: The original Lang guns apparently did not have forcing cones in front of the breech following Lefaucheaux examples; British gunmakers soon changed this.*23f In addition per comments in the UK press there was the distinct possibility/probablity that Lang early on was using Liège made barrels, perhaps with lumps, and that this continued into 1856-57. This is circumstantial evidence that Hodges had followed the same route.

In a pamphlet published in January 1857 to hawk the pin-fire, Lang wrote that he had been shooting break action pin-fires for three years.*23g This would seem to indicate that he began shooting his own breech0-loading guns in early 1854, which is as good a guess for the date of his first pin-fire gun as any and also accepted by pin-fire scholar Stephen Nash. (The earliest extant datable Lang pin-fire is from 1858. One well-known British gunsmith has stated that he believes he may be able to locate two Lang pin-fire center-break guns with bills of sale dated to 1854. However, no documentation has been forthcoming.)

Lang continued to refine his gun and in 1855 he showed it at the Paris Exposition Universelle and won a gold medal for “excellence of construction.”*23h Interestingly, from 1854-1856 no Lang commercial advertisements for the pin-fire can be found, although the gun was discussed regularly in "The Field."*23i Nevertheless, a storm of controversy, a print “flame war,” erupted in the British press over the concept with a very conservative group of gun owners adamantly maintaining that the “crutch gun” could not stand up to strong charges of British powder with a few equally strong willed upper-class users touting its convenience, safety and general viability.*23j

Note: Lang later comes across as insufferably arrogant; Witness his 1) 1858 advertisements labeling others' center-break guns as "rubbish"*23k; and, his 2) border-line insulting exchange in June 1859 with the editor of "The Field" over whether he was going to submit guns for the July 1859 "The Field" breech-loaders vs muzzle loaders trial. "I told you that nothing should induce me to have my name mixed up in such a farce."*23l

Last edited by Argo44; 06/10/23 10:44 PM.

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And, not one of the gunmakers in London, even Mr. Purdey, would have been considered as "gentlemen." The English class system was ornate, intricate and deadly.

Last edited by Argo44; 06/10/23 11:10 PM.

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It may be that British Royalty were less worried about mingling with people from “trade” than the rest of the upper crust.

Edward VII was fond of racing in the yacht owned by Lipton, the tea magnate, leading to Kaiser Bill’s acid enquiry if he was again “off sailing with his grocer?”

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