July
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
3 members (fullandfuller, AGS, SKB), 190 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,708
Posts548,155
Members14,438
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#630728 05/28/23 01:21 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 37
Tamid Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 37
Just reading an article that says Steve Davis of Tennessee is the acknowledged Dickson gun expert in the USA. Does anyone have any information of Steve Davis?


Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Tamid #630737 05/28/23 04:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
I haven't contacted Steve in several years. He moved up to the UP of Michigan from Tennessee maybe a dozen years ago, where he did several repairs for me. In Tennessee, he was the US expert on Dicksons, both as an importer and gunsmith. He still worked on Dicksons in the UP and also raised a line of English Setters, one of which I have. I have since heard he has retired from gunsmithing. Steve and Dan Morgan in Vermont were the two main US gunsmiths on Dicksons. The Dickson and Son company has had a rejuvenation since J P Daeschler purchased it. He works closely with Delanay and Sons in Pennsylvania and can be contacted on his website https://www.john-dickson.com/ Liz Delaney https://www.delaneyandsons.com/ has become a chief contact for Dickson and Son in the US and is one of the movers getting the Vintagers Shoot back on its feet. JP will be attending the Vintagers this year.

Tamid #630738 05/28/23 04:23 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Leonard;

Would you please PM me with the contact info you have for Steve Davis.

I too have questioned what happened to Steve Davis as I remember him coming to the "Southern" some years ago with several most beautiful Dickson round actions in the back of his pick up truck. As a matter of fact I was just asking Joe Norcom (aka Joe in Charlotte) two weeks ago if he knew "what ever happened to the Dickson round action guy from Tennessee"?

I do not see any empirical evidence that we are going to see any new John Dickson & Son round action guns, do you?

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Last edited by bushveld; 05/28/23 04:31 PM.
bushveld #630741 05/28/23 06:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
I was in their shop last September in Dunkeld.

They told me they had tremendous demand for repair and refurbishment work as well as a solid backlog of new guns to build.

I couldn’t help but notice that Johnny from TGS and Jonathan Macgee have been waving around a new 28 bore bar-in-wood.

What makes you think there will be no more new ones?

Last edited by ClapperZapper; 05/28/23 06:15 PM.

Out there doing it best I can.
Tamid #630743 05/28/23 06:30 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sorry Clapper, but I do not know who Johnny from TGS and Jonathan Macgee are and I don't think I have seen an bar in wood John Dickson & Son round action new or old. Are you speaking of a MacNaughton perhaps? Please be so kind as to post a link to this firearm.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

bushveld #630749 05/28/23 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Yes, apologies,
Skeleton Macnaughton. 28 bore

Jonny is the host of TGS shooting on YouTube,
And Jonathon Mcgee is a very well known shooting lifestyle photographer/videographer.

When I was in their shop the racks had mostly museum type restoration level guns.
Graham Macinlay had far more shooter level type round actions.

I’ll scrounge up the links for them.


Out there doing it best I can.
Tamid #630751 05/28/23 08:21 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Yes, you are spot on about Graham; it seems that he is taken the lead in finding and selling the Dickson round action jewels.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Tamid #630752 05/28/23 08:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 421
SKB Online Content
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 421
Jewels are where you find them. A board member is looking forward to his new 20 bore round action I found for him. There were a fair number of Scottish guns in this collection, Dicksons, Frasers and Henrys, most were rifles but a few shotguns as well.

The same client brought is a lovely Fraser .303 double from Graham last year and he just picked up a great Fraser falling block at Bonham's.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

I miss Monkey Jim.
bushveld #630755 05/28/23 08:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
I’m looking forward to stopping back in his shop.
I’m headed there from Northumberland in August.
I’ll be at Dickson’s last week of August.

You ever think about rebarreling a 28bore with Damascus tubes from Peter Dyson? Would have to make ribs.


Out there doing it best I can.
Tamid #630756 05/28/23 08:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Steve is indeed alive and well, in the UP. At least he was, when I spoke with him a few days ago.
I fully intend to spend a week or two with him and his lovely wife, and the Llewelin setters, hunting grouse this fall.

bushveld #630758 05/28/23 09:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
I've worked with both Graham Mackenzie and J P Daeschler, having purchased 2 Dicksons from Graham and one from JP. In answer to your question, Steve Howell, the one from JP is indeed a bar-in-wood 16 ga. hammer gun with damascus barrels that was displayed at the Southern last year. (I did PM Steve Davis's info to you). I've visited Graham, and have passed through Dunkeld many times, but never stopped, but that was when Bob Palmer still owned Dickson. I believe Graham was refurbishing Dicksons for years before JP purchased Dickson. Now they might be competing. I have met both in the UK, would trust either one and each does excellent work. Graham still stores a Dickson for me for when I shoot driven birds in the UK.
Glad to hear that Steve Davis is doing well.

Tamid #630759 05/28/23 10:22 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Thank you Dr. Wurman, I did receive your PM with Steve Davis' info.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Tamid #630768 05/29/23 09:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
I purchased my Dickson through Dan Morgan. He gets them through Graham McKinley over in Scotland. I know Dan is a very skilled gunsmith.


Mike Proctor
Tamid #630772 05/29/23 09:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
As I understand there were less than 2K made in the round action. That would make them extremely "rare" I would think. Mine was made in 1943 and looks great (thanks to Graham McKinley) and has the original owner's initials engraved in the oval as well as on the case.
At 6lb's it is a wonder to shoot.


Mike Proctor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 935
Likes: 270
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Yes, apologies,
Skeleton Macnaughton. 28 bore

Jonny is the host of TGS shooting on YouTube,
And Jonathon Mcgee is a very well known shooting lifestyle photographer/videographer.

When I was in their shop the racks had mostly museum type restoration level guns.
Graham Macinlay had far more shooter level type round actions.

I’ll scrounge up the links for them.



Clapper Zapper/Leonard Wurman;

My friend Ken Ide just sent me a photo from Boothroyd's "Shotguns and Gunsmiths" of a 16 gauge John Dickson & Son round action gun with "wood covered action" (Boothrody's words) so at least there is one of them in existence.

I hope that we can see a new John Dickson & Son round action gun come of of their shop in the near future. To build a best quality gun such as that requires someone to step up to the plate and make 50% or more of deposit for the expected final price of the gun; hopefully someone will do that while there are craftsman alive who can build one, and who have an apprentice or associate who can be with the entire process and learn how to build them for the future.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Tamid #630791 05/29/23 03:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
McNaughton video


Mike Proctor
Tamid #630794 05/29/23 04:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Thank you Mike.
I couldn’t find that video as easily as I thought.

Jonathan makes very beautiful sporting videos for clients.


Out there doing it best I can.
Tamid #630795 05/29/23 05:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,868
Likes: 459
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,868
Likes: 459
Cool video. I especially love the line, "We are normal people." Says the guy that has just uncased his new McNaughton double while wearing a suit that cost more than most guns. And 20 degrees C is "hot"? It is a different world over there smile


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Tamid #630796 05/29/23 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Likes: 68
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Likes: 68
I believe Dickson's made just under 1800 Round Actions and a very few were 20 bore's. I am guessing David Mckay Brown may have made another 500 in SxS.


This ain't a dress rehearsal , Don't Let the Old Man IN
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,006
Likes: 313
I’m pretty sure the gun is a loaner that has been making the rounds with various centers of influence.
Same with the Krieghoff pair and the B Rizzini pair.
Jonathon’s videos, and his name recognition, bring eyeballs.

A bespoke shooting suit is about the same price as a customized off the rack suit.
I was paying $800.00 for an HSM suit finished to measure, in 1986, just for some perspective.

If you have never worn a made to measure suit, I would recommend it.
Shooting suits sell on eBay lightly worn, made of premium fabrics, easily altered, frequently for very little.
A Norfolk shooting jacket is a lifetime garment.

Fwiw, because of the market structure in the UK, many estates have to let days. This allows the public to enjoy the sport.
If you shoot as a single gun, you can be shooting with anyone that wants a go.

Last edited by ClapperZapper; 05/29/23 06:31 PM.

Out there doing it best I can.
bushveld #630798 05/29/23 06:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
I can tell you there is more than one 16 bore wood covered action Dickson out there.

Last edited by Mike Rowe; 05/29/23 06:38 PM.
Nitrah #630824 05/30/23 09:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 421
SKB Online Content
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 421
Originally Posted by Nitrah
I believe Dickson's made just under 1800 Round Actions and a very few were 20 bore's. I am guessing David Mckay Brown may have made another 500 in SxS.

My understanding is that Dickson made between Thirty and forty 20 bore Round actions, yes quite rare.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

I miss Monkey Jim.
Tamid #630845 05/30/23 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
Donald Dallas’s book says there were approximately 40 20 bore round action guns made. However, I have an email from JP at Dickson’s saying there were 30 made between 1881 and 1961.

Ken

Last edited by KDGJ; 05/30/23 06:27 PM. Reason: Added RA
Tamid #630852 05/30/23 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
A Mia Culpa. I misrepresented my 16 ga. Dickson as a Bar-In-Wood. It's really an Island Lock. The term Bar-In-Wood is a little fluid, and seems to refer to any extension of the stock wood to cover some of the the action metal. So in a sense the Island Lock could be considered a variant of a Bar-In-Wood action, although it does have its own firm designation. No matter what, I think that the McNaughton style of Bar-In-Wood is the prettiest of all. Douglas Tate discusses the variants.
https://shootingsportsman.com/skeletals-in-the-closet/

Tamid #630853 05/30/23 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,287
Likes: 536
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,287
Likes: 536
Bar in wood means that the action bar is in the wood. I’ve never heard the term in reference to anything but that. Least of all an island lock.
Interesting.

Tamid #630856 05/30/23 05:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 720
Likes: 105
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 720
Likes: 105
About 2 weeks ago, Graham listed a beautiful 20ga round action (Not a Bar-in-wood) Dickson for 34,000 Sterling which sold immediately. Don't know what the buyer paid, but it was, by Graham's own admission, a very rare gun (he had seen 2 others, I think he stated). The round action Scottish gun is one of the world's greatest achievements in firearm design, IMHO. Due to manufacturing costs, it is not commercially feasible to produce in great numbers, but but that in no way diminishes the beautiful contribution of the Scots.


Owen
Tamid #630858 05/30/23 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
Owen I think Grahm’s 20 was also Kell engraved and probably added to the price. Not many Dickson’s were Kell engraved.

Ken

Tamid #630861 05/30/23 07:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Well, there are at least two bar-in-wood, or skeleton action, true round action 16 bore guns out there.
When the one JP had came up for auction, I had my hands on another one quite like it.
Unfortunately, it does not belong to me.

Tamid #630863 05/30/23 08:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
A lot of early Dickson's were Sumner engraved (AKA - Boss & Co.). They also utilized the Boss single trigger. Dickson did develop a single trigger but was a failure. So avoid a Dickson made around 1905 - 1910 I would say.
I absolutely adore mine. Made 1943.


Mike Proctor
Tamid #630896 05/31/23 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Likes: 68
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Likes: 68
Mike, just to be clear do you mean to avoid all Dicksons between 1905 and 1910 or just the single triggers? JP told me between 1900 and 1910 were the golden years, kind of similar to between the wars London guns.


This ain't a dress rehearsal , Don't Let the Old Man IN
Tamid #630897 05/31/23 02:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
No just the Dickson single trigger. I believe those were the years that they were made.


Mike Proctor
Owenjj3 #630987 06/02/23 11:25 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 37
Tamid Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 37
Originally Posted by Owenjj3
About 2 weeks ago, Graham listed a beautiful 20ga round action (Not a Bar-in-wood) Dickson for 34,000 Sterling which sold immediately. Don't know what the buyer paid, but it was, by Graham's own admission, a very rare gun (he had seen 2 others, I think he stated). The round action Scottish gun is one of the world's greatest achievements in firearm design, IMHO. Due to manufacturing costs, it is not commercially feasible to produce in great numbers, but but that in no way diminishes the beautiful contribution of the Scots.

Would that be the one now listed on GunsInternational at $49,000?


Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Tamid #630988 06/02/23 11:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 720
Likes: 105
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 720
Likes: 105
Tamid, Good eye, but the gun in Scotland was Kell engraved in a bold strapwork pattern, if I recall. The one at Country Pursuits is more modern (1992) and has traditional rose and scroll engraving. That's not to say the Kell example won't turn up at a US dealer sometime soon!


Owen
Tamid #631041 06/04/23 08:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 80


Mike Proctor
Tamid #631044 06/04/23 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,766
Likes: 527
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,766
Likes: 527
JOHN DICKSON & SON
AN EARLY AND RARE SIDELEVER VARIANT 16-BORE 1880 PATENT 'SKELETON' ROUND-ACTION NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 3808,
[Linked Image from auctions.holtsauctioneers.com]
[Linked Image from auctions.holtsauctioneers.com]

There is rare and what almost has to be one of a kind. A round action, side lever is very rare. This is a gun from Holt's auction a few years back. Had a through crack at the wrist. Barrels replaced by David Mckay Brown in 1970. So even with a cracked wrist and replacement barrels it still is worth a ton. They made three 16 bore skeleton round actions, from research and this is the only known side lever I was told. Estimate was 3,000-5,000 pounds. Commissioned bids were 8,000 pounds before the floor could bid, I had to say not today, at 14,000 pounds, and it went for 21,000 pounds plus Holt's commissions and government interest. Then you had to deal with the stock. Most likely a restock job. And still somebody got a deal because I doubt that another one will ever come for sale, even if one more exists, and it might because the records can be incomplete.

1 member likes this: FallCreekFan
Tamid #631054 06/04/23 02:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Likes: 57
KyJon,

This article is pretty interesting on the Dickson 16 Dickson. It would be nice to know what the buyer did with this gun.

Ken

Last edited by KDGJ; 06/04/23 02:22 PM.
1 member likes this: bushveld
Tamid #631063 06/04/23 06:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 18
I have seen another one just like it in the flesh.
Side lever and all.
I took it to pieces, and put it back together again.
And didn't break anything.....

1 member likes this: bushveld
Tamid #631072 06/04/23 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
It's a little embarrassing, but I do have a Bar-in-Wood 16 ga. Dickson hammergun, and not an island lock as I had incorrectly stated. There were only 7 made, from 1878 (mine) until 1886. My apologies for posting the wrong information, I hadn't looked at my hammerguns since last summer.

Hope you can open this link.


https://imgur.com/DMkpyG0

Tamid #631079 06/05/23 12:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,766
Likes: 527
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,766
Likes: 527
Even if there are three of the guns I mentioned I doubt I will ever get a chance at one again. But it would have been fun to own it. Perhaps it would be just as big a disappointment as the side opening O/U I had a decade or two ago. Lusted after it for 20 years, bought it and could not hit the side of a barn with it. If I wanted to end myself shooting it, I would need to reload several times. Down the road it went. It was totally cool looking and operated fine but just not for me.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.187s Queries: 95 (0.146s) Memory: 1.0150 MB (Peak: 1.8993 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-07-22 12:10:39 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS