May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 248 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,561
Posts546,340
Members14,423
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Boxlock
OP Offline
Boxlock

Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
I picked up an action recently pretty cheap. Well an action and a stock. No barrels and no forend. I've been playing with the idea of making up a block, and using a couple barrel blanks. I machine injection molds for a living, so I am very familiar with how much work it would be to reverse engineer for this. Lets lean into the idea of doing it rather than discouraging it because its hard. I know its hard. LOL.

I've already waded through a few threads on French shotguns while I was waiting for membership approval. I'm not seeing anything like a parts diagram. What I would really like if somebody would be so kind is to post some decent photographs of the barrel hardware and the forend hardware.

Yes, I checked the usual sources. Numreich, Jack, Sarco, Ebay, Gunbroker and more. Didn't really find much. A couple "shotgun unknown" items might be similar. For this discussion lets please, "lean into the idea of doing it." I may decided not to, but my goal is hopefully to gain more information on parts and only then consider if I want really to machine, solder, and hand fit or not.

Last edited by Bob La Londe; 05/20/23 04:45 PM.

--
Bob La Londe - CNC Molds N Stuff
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a real machinist!
1 member likes this: Stanton Hillis
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 909
Likes: 43
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 909
Likes: 43
Could you post pictures of the action and flats with measurements? The length of the watertable, distance between the firing pins and the way it cocks and how it locks up. Also the diameter of the hinge pin and what the radius of the knuckle are all things you will need to know, and us to help.

2 members like this: Bob La Londe, Stanton Hillis
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857
Likes: 384
mc Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857
Likes: 384
There is a book that a guy welds a new lump on a barrel set to fit an action I don't remember what book.if you can machine a lump and you weld it might be a less labour intensive fix.

2 members like this: Bob La Londe, Stanton Hillis
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,190
Likes: 1163
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,190
Likes: 1163
Welcome to the forum, Bob. Thanks for sharing the info with us, and I wish you the best in your endeavor. I can appreciate your desire to do this. There are some sharp people on here (I do not include myself in that group) concerning gun building. Be patient. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable here will see your post and offer something that will help.

Best wishes on gathering the info to tackle this venture.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
1 member likes this: Bob La Londe
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 170
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 170

Last edited by skeettx; 05/21/23 08:51 AM.

USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
1 member likes this: Bob La Londe
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Boxlock
OP Offline
Boxlock

Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Mark II, I will certainly get to that at some point, but right now I am in data seeking mode. At this point I think its unlikely I am going to luck into the right parts, so seeing images of the mating parts I don't have is more useful.

mc, I can reverse engineer and machine. I can shoot metal out of a hot glue gun for metal. Sometimes it looks good, and sometimes it looks like what comes out of the north end of a south bound chicken. I have considered the approach of cutting off and welding on hardware to some other barrel set, but if I build from scratch I think most barrels are silver soldered together. Also within my skillset, although I am no master at it.

Stanton Hillis, Thank you. I am sure there are.

skeettx, I missed your armslist link when I first read your post last night. That looks like exactly the same shotgun. The forum link you posted is actually the first thing I saw when I first visited this forum from a search engine result for the first time. I have not read every word of every post in it, but I will. I have skimmed every post, read many of them, and looked at some of the images.

Thank you all for your help.


--
Bob La Londe - CNC Molds N Stuff
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a real machinist!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 930
Likes: 259
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 930
Likes: 259
Originally Posted by Bob La Londe
I picked up an action recently pretty cheap. Well an action and a stock. No barrels and no forend. I've been playing with the idea of making up a block, and using a couple barrel blanks. I machine injection molds for a living, so I am very familiar with how much work it would be to reverse engineer for this. Lets lean into the idea of doing it rather than discouraging it because its hard. I know its hard. LOL.

I've already waded through a few threads on French shotguns while I was waiting for membership approval. I'm not seeing anything like a parts diagram. What I would really like if somebody would be so kind is to post some decent photographs of the barrel hardware and the forend hardware.

Yes, I checked the usual sources. Numreich, Jack, Sarco, Ebay, Gunbroker and more. Didn't really find much. A couple "shotgun unknown" items might be similar. For this discussion lets please, "lean into the idea of doing it." I may decided not to, but my goal is hopefully to gain more information on parts and only then consider if I want really to machine, solder, and hand fit or not.

Bob;

Are you asking for help for making a "block" that will have the lumps machined into it and also where you can add barrel blanks to this block? If that is what you are asking and if you have a vertical milling machine you can build what is known as a shoelump style "block" to do what you desire. Look down through this old post (see link below) of work I did some years back in building a shoe lump barrel set. You could machine such a shoelump block in plastic as a prototype.

Kindest regards;
Stephen Howell

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...al&topic=&Search=true#Post297834

2 members like this: mc, Bob La Londe
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 211
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 211
Bob,
First of all, Stephen Howell did(does) fantastic work and I am not denigrating it at all, but I believe you will find it much easier to make a Monoblock instead of shoe lump type block. The obvious difference between the two types is that with a Monoblock, the barrels are inserted into the Monoblock and the "joint is large enough that soft solder is sufficient to hold them, avoiding the possibility of overheating the barrels. The often-voiced objection is that there is sometimes a visible joint, but not everyone finds this objectionable. If you can remove the hinge pin, and locking blocks, the receiver will tell you the dimensions you need to mill the Monoblock. I believe barrel blanks already prepared for use with a Monoblock are available as a special order from Walther. The diameter of the holes in the Monoblock should be determined from the end of the barrel blank.
Mike

1 member likes this: Bob La Londe
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Boxlock
OP Offline
Boxlock

Joined: May 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
bushveld, I looked at the first page of your thread on the other forum and noted the use of a D-bit in your pictures. That made me smile a little. I've been learning to make my own single lip cutters for special applications to reduce the number of setups for some jobs. Special dovetails for tool holders, angled faces that can be programmed flat in a cnc mill instead of tilted in a sine vise, etc, Stuff like that. I make such tools out of broken carbide, because, well I have a lot of broken carbide. LOL. I do have a vertical mill or two or three or ... well 5 currently in regular service. Another one for only those emergency repairs on a day when I have a broken air compressor, and one more that had a catastrophic ball screw failure I haven't gotten around to fixing yet. Even a small one still in the crate I bought just to do a video series I haven't started yet. I think that makes nine including the retired one on a shelf. They range from toy to light industrial in size (2 tons). No really big machines. I might have a lathe or two as well. I make a living using them. Someday I might get good at it. I just read a few of your posts in that thread and I can see where there will be a great deal of good information in it. Thank you.

Der Ami, Thank you. When you say soft solder I have to assume you atleast mean plumbers solder. I can't imagine using 60/40 unless it was just to gently hold pieces that are mechanically wedged in place... and yes I can see how the barrels might be mechanically wedged into a mono block. Or atleast what I picture in my head as a mono block.

I'm certainly not certain of exactly how I will tackle it just yet. I might even have a fantasy of just lucking into the parts... like fantasizing about winning the lottery.


--
Bob La Londe - CNC Molds N Stuff
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a real machinist!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 211
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 211
Bob,
As I recall, it was 50/50 solder. The Monoblock/barrel solder joint was large enough that it was plenty strong enough to hold them together. My experience with this was in the mid 1970s to early 1980s. I highly suspect that now they would use a high strength glue such as Loc-Tite bearing fixer (I think it is their #662 or 668). I recently lost a friend that converted double shotguns to double rifles, using this glue. Due to a mistake, he had the need to break the bond of this glue and he had to heat the barrels/block to bright red to do it. With regard to machinery, you would be surprised how little was required. My German gunsmith friends used only a small "speed lathe" that had a shop-made bed extension when replacing barrels using the old ones to make the "block" ( hakenstuck?). This lathe had no carriage or lead screw. This was before reunification and if they made a new barrel set for an East German gun that no blank sets were available for (Merkel, etc.) The used a small horizonal spindle mill that had a vertical spindle attachment installed. The main "tool" was their experience and skill. To put the parts( monoblock/barrel tubes, ribs) together, they sent them to the barrelmaker( rohermaker?) who had the appropriate equipment (oven). Even though my friend was qualified to fit the new barrels up, he usually called another friend in to do it. This fitter used mostly files and scrapers to fit the barrels in. He filed like a machine and worked right on top of thousands of dollars' worth of engraving without "missing a lick". His main equipment was also his skill.
If you take the project on and mess it up so badly that you can't sell the parts for scrap iron, you still would not have lost enough to outweigh the fun and experience you would have gained.
Mike

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.106s Queries: 42 (0.080s) Memory: 0.8632 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-05-27 07:17:09 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS