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Sidelock
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1.9mm is .0748. Does the drawing above not call for 20 bore at chamber to be 1.9 then drop to 1.8 which is .071? 2.0mm is the 12 measurement which is .0787. We have arbitrary picked .090 or .100 as a benchmark. I have never seen it documented.

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Boxlock
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The overall weight of the gun is 6lbs-2oz, someone added a rubber recoil pad at some point so that might be adding a little weight. I have reached out to AYA USA and they said they would contact AYA in Spain their opinion. I’m not feeling too optimistic but it will be nice if they can give some info. I’d be surprised if they could use a high strength steel for barrels and also attach ribs and keep the required heat treatment.

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Sidelock
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better safe dan sorry...

don shoot hit...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Sidelock
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Thank you ed for your insight.

It would be a great addition to our wall thickness data if you would please document the end-of-chamber wall thicknesses of your Army & Navy, William Evans, W&C Scott, and Cogswell and Harrison sidelocks, and those of your recently acquired English boxlocks. Have you listed them for sale yet BTW?
Please include the maker, gauge, proof level, and overall weight (light weight game guns would be expected to have thinner barrels). It would be very helpful if you'd include the MWT and location thereof.
What wall thickness gauge do you use ed? Or who does the measurements for you?
What wall thickness information do you provide to potential buyers...so they can be safe rather than sorry?
I assume you accept returns if on repeated measurement by the purchaser the numbers are less than your 90/30?
Thank you.

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Rev Drew,
Good morning.

Would you confirm the numbers from your post above?

Standard CIP proof pressure of 850 kg per sq. cm. (BAR) = 13,920 psi for a service pressure of 10,730 psi

That would mean a gun with a 900 bar proof would be 14739psi for a service pressure of 11348psi?
In 12ga that would be 152psi off of saami's 11.5k?

Thanks!
Bill


Bill Johnson
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Sidelock
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Here you go Bill

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public?page=1&cartridge_type_id=7
12g 50mm, 65mm, and 70mm “Standard Proof” lead or steel (limited to no larger than 3.25 mm and max. fps 1,300).
Numbers are transducer BAR converted to PSI.
Maximum Average (SERVICE) Pressure 740 BAR = 10,733 psi;
Maximum Statistical Individual Pressure 850 BAR = 12,328 psi
Mean PROOF Pressure 930 BAR = 13,489 psi

12g 3” & 3 1/2” “High performance/Superior Proof”
Maximum Average (Service) Pressure 1050 BAR = 15,229 psi
Maximum statistical individual pressure 1200 BAR = 17,405 psi
Magnum proof 1320 BAR = 19,145 psi

Both 65 and 70 mm 16g standard is SERVICE 780 BAR or 11,313 psi;
MSIP 900 BAR or 13,053 psi;
PROOF 980 BAR or 14,214 psi.

Both 65 and 70 mm 20g standard is SERVICE 830 BAR or 12,038 psi;
MSIP 950 BAR or 13,779 psi;
PROOF 1040 BAR or 15,084 psi.
(The original chart from 1984 and revised in 2000 indicates 20g PROOF 1080 BAR or 15,664 psi. The number was revised to 1040 BAR 11-2021.)



Spanish Service Loads Pre - CIP c. 1970
850 kg/cm2 proof = 12,090 psi for a service pressure of 566.6 kg/cm2 or 8060 psi BUT as measured by lead crushers, so by modern piezo transducers the pressure would be + 10 - 14% or about 9000 psi
900 kg/cm2 proof = 12,801 for a 600 kg/cm2 = 8534 psi service pressure + 10 – 14% or about 9500 psi
1000 kg/cm2 proof = 14,223 psi for a service load of 9,473 psi + 10 – 14% or about 10,500 psi
1200 kg/cm2 proof = 17,068 psi for a service load of 800 kg/cm2 = 11,380 + 10 – 14% or about 12,500 psi

850 kg/cm2 proof was commonly used for entry level Basque 12/70 guns of the 50's through the early 70's. Better grades carried 900 or 1000 kg/cm2 proof with some 12/70 pigeon guns 1200 kg/cm2.

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Sidelock
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Perfect!!!
Those are the numbers I remember.

Thanks.
Bill

Last edited by ithaca1; 05/15/23 09:02 AM.

Bill Johnson
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Sidelock
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Not relevant to the subject gun, but for future assistance, I found this:

2007 in response to a question regarding use of steel shot
"Our guns in standard aren´t tested for steel. Guns are only tested for steel when is required by customer and in that case is stamped in barrels with a fleur de lis."
Regards. AYA-AGUIRRE Y ARANZABAL, S.A."

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/are-new-ayas-steel-shot-rated.144024/
Since 2012, all AyA shotguns have been proofed for High Performance Steel and are stamped with the Fleur-de-lis.
I have an AyA manufactured in 2009. I wrote to AyA and asked if there was a qualitative difference between barrels made in 2009 and barrels made in 2012. Here is the answer I got, verbatim:
"Some technical specifications always changes (sic). Our advise (sic) is to use cartridges under tested proof."

This lists only the No. 56, 37 & Augusta with "Chrome Nickel Steel"
https://doublegunshop.com/aya2.htm
https://doublegunshop.com/aya3.htm

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