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Sidelock
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I've wondered about that, Daryl and Damascus. is there no situation then that you would consider honing barrels?


Jim
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If the cleanup won't take it out of proof.you need measureing tools a proper hone if you pulled breech plugs you can cast a lap and lap the bores it just depends on how bad they are.

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Originally Posted by damascus
Herein Brit land. Barrel Hones and reamers plus a person equals an out of proof gun. Taking metal out of a shotgun barrel is never a good thing in the end it is shortening the guns life.

Very short sighted opinion. We all know, this is isn’t anywhere near a practical rule, opinion, whatever you want to call it. Ridiculous actually.

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A judicious use of a hone combined with a barrel wall gauge can improve pitted barrels dramatically. Similarly, external pitting can be draw filed off if you are careful. I just picked up two really nice British guns that appear to have been left in cases, both having excellent bores but substantial pitting on the exterior of the tubes, both guns had plenty of wall thickness, had not been refinished in the past and look far better after draw filing. The remaining pitting will be filled with micro welding. I fall into the category of endorsing careful work if possible as opposed to leaving the pitting in place, others may view things differently.

Last edited by SKB; 04/22/23 07:48 AM.

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Steve is correct in his first sentence but the op does not seem to have any tools and it seems no experience in cleaning up the bores with a proper hone .you need to know what your working with and that means proper tools.i have cleaned up pitted bores that were pretty bad looking and I clean them after use so as long as I own the gun it won't need any more pit removal .and the pits will no longer continue to rust

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This all makes sense to me I guess... meaning I can understand both perspectives.

But here in Yankee Doodle Dixie, where we don't talk about proof so much as wall thickness, it seems like one could make a careful measurement of wall thickness at every pitted area and determine if lapping/honing the pits out would be pushing the limits of thickness. Surely it's easier to keep a shiny smooth barrel clean and free of ongoing corrosion. Right?

Personally, I would rather buy and shoot a gun with shiny bores, even if honed, so long as the MWT is ok. I would also buy a gun with oversized, aka out of proof, bores as long as the MWT was adequate.

If the pits are out of proof or below MWT, the barrel is shot, shiny or not, right?


Jim
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The gun is a muzzleloading smooth bore rifle (no rifling w/ sights). The 38 inch barrel is approximately 45 caliber with exterior dimensions of approximately 1&1/8 inch at the breech and 7/8 of an inch at the muzzle. It is percussion and I would guess it was made sometime in the early to middle part of the 1800s. Might have started out as a rifle but the bore was rusted very badly. My father bought it to use as a "pattern" to build a rifle but never had the time. I just wanted to restore it to shootable condition for the fun of it. I finished most of what I wanted to do last night. I will test it with 40 grains of 2F, newspaper, and a .451 roundball and then a 1/2 oz of shot, just to do it. It was in very terrible condition and as guns go, I will grade it as very terrible still. It has a full stock broken at the step and now accu-glassed back together. I spent several hours on the barrels which at this point might be worth 100 bucks to someone wanting them for a build but who knows? It took me a while to figure out why the lock would work out of the gun but not in and after removing material in the wrong places I got rid of about 1/64 of an inch of wood in the right place to solve the problem. I fired 3 caps and quit.

Thank you to everyone who took an interest in my post. All of your advice and comments are appreciated.

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LeLFusil. At first I had decided that I would not reply to your rather derogatory reply to my post but on second thoughts I will spend the time. Firstly I will bring to your attention that we live in different countries though this may have slipped your attention if you did mot bother to read the first three words of my post so I will repeat it LOUDER!! HERE IN BRIT LAND!! So that does not mean AMERICA!! The land where you can ream hone polish a shotgun barrel walls to the thickness of a cigarette paper because you can do it if you wish the consequences would be only c civil law case if you where stupid enough to sell it without saying what you have done . Now here in Brit land that is not the case in fact far from it, here we have gun proof laws to save us Brits from people who think it would be a good idea to clean the pitting or other flaws out of a barrel and not give a [censored - come on man!] about the consequences. So lets take an example of the most common shotgun bore size here in Brit land twelve. The accepted initial bore size for this gauge is 0.729 inch I will keep to Imperia measurements if that size should ever exceed 0.740 the gun is now out of proof all the smart answers and words in the world can not change that fact. Now this is where the Gun proof Law comes in in to force and backed by British Tort. A PERSON IS NOT ALLOWED TO LEND HIRE TRADE OR SELL SUCH GUN ( it is possible to sell it to a licenced gun dealer at a pittance though more than likely he will take it off your hands for mothing), until said gun has been re proofed by the relevant proof house or the gun made inactive permanently. That is why Brit Auction houses provide all the relevant measurements of a guns barrel because they know full well that there is a prosecution waiting for them if they sell an out of proof usable gun, out of proof guns are sold with the barrels cut down to a length to allow for sleeving. So lets get back to the 12 bore from bright shiny new you only have ONLY 1/10 of an inch that can be lost before that dreaded 0.729 inch and the gun becomes worthless unless you want to risk a re proof, now back in the early nineteenth century gun proof houses used plug gauges to determine gauge sizes so a gun could be entered for proof with a bore diameter of 0.735 and proofed at 12 this was very common with Damascus barrels because of Blacks that may still be in a new barrel wall so it was polished to remove as many as possible without the bore arriving a 0.740. In other words you may not have had that 1/10 inch to start with.
I do not have short sighted opinions but your remarks only enforces that you have no idea of how and why British guns are proved plus the consequences of ignoring the law attributed to it. If you want to come out with comments like that again try to make them at least knowledgeable and remember the world does not rotate around the Whitehouse other countries have meaningful proof laws but the Brits where the first to enshrine them in law.


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Damascus, you’re a very sensitive fellow.😂. Derogatory? I said no such thing. I just disagree with your assessment regarding honing shotgun bores. Calling another persons statement “ridiculous” isn’t derogatory in this country or yours. Relax, take a deep breath.

Your ridiculous comment of “Barrel Hones and reamers plus a person equals an out of proof gun” falls flat on its face. If a gun in Britland was proofed at .729 and it’s now .732 and was honed to clean up a pitted bore….that absolutely does not take the gun out of proof. You also know that in Britland, a gun can have paper thin walls, still pass proof and it’s still a legal gun to sell. Someone in England is doing bore work. See what Im saying, I’ll say it louder for you….YOUR EARLIER COMMENT WAS RIDICULOUS!!!!

Are you saying nobody hones, polishes, does bore work in Britland?? I’m telling you a shitload of your 12 bore guns show up to our shores not matching the original proof dimensions (not out of proof) and with thin walls. Check out Kirby Hoyts website, he’s got a lot of in proof guns with thin walls and they all came straight out of Britland. You wanna disagree with that too???

I don’t need a lecture from you in Brit proof laws. I’m fairly well versed. Thanks. Now calm down and chill on the lectures.

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LeFusil. You have an economical memory because you did not bother to read your first post. I took exemption to " short sighted" and "ridiculous actually" also I can think what I like about your reply and I did not wish to know weather you think your reply was derogatory or not it is what I think in this case matters.
You also did not understand the 0.735 situation that I am sure is quite clear though I will repeat it more simple for you to understand because in the days of Damascus barrels and the use of plug gauges by the proof houses a gun could be entered for proof with a barrel measurement of 0.735 and it will be in proof BUT!! And this is where you could not comprehend the gun is proofed at the correct size 12 bore though the barrel only has five thousands of of metal that be removed before it goes out of proof rather than the ten thousands if its size was at the start 0.729.
I did not say that people over this side of the pond do not hone barrels you took that on board your self without my help.
Why cant you understand the the simple math that a 12 bore gun is in proof if its bore diameter is in the band between 0.729 and 0.739 that is simple enough and if it gets to 0.740 it is out of proof if as you say you are understanding British proof, though we both know now that you do not know the basic rules of proof at all because I intentionally left out the one measurement that is the corner stone of British proof and if you where as knowledgeable as you say you would have bust a gut to point it out but you didn't. So I will enlighten you ALL BRITISH GUN BARREL INTERNAL PROOF MEASUREMENTS ARE MADE NINE INCHES FROM THE BREACH FACE! I do not give lectures I just impart information in good faith though if that cap fits then wear it. it is your good self is making things difficult trying to score points out of things that are not there just of tour own making.
Finally I am sure you would wish to continue this until our Henty VIII would forgive Ann Boleyn for sleeping around. Finally I see you have a liking for Emoji's I will let the "British Archer from the battle of Agincourt give my final opinion.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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