doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Help with first German sidelock

F.W. Kessler 16ga. Please remind me if this 2 g Schulz Na(?) with 27g bl is a proof pressure or recommended load and what psi might this equal? Any other info would be appreciated.
Will definitely take lock plate off to view but the pin pattern looks different than English?
Found FWK catalog on germanhuntingguns that had same sidelock but only in much much nicer grade listed.

Pin placement is definitely quite different than my Sauer.

Maybe drp number will give us the answer?

Yes, 2 grammes of Captain Eduard Schultze's semi-smokeless and 27 grammes of lead shot. That voluntary proof stamp used used up till 1912 and warranted an additional fee.

I read the DRP nummer as >>63231<< but that didn't fetch a protection period for anything in klasse 72 in Germany? Keßler didn't have a similar number.

Looks like EE for the tubeset knitter & that could be Emil Eckoldt or Ernst Eckoldt?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ub...ords=schultze&Search=true#Post626792

Hause gun powder Calculus.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Well....... F.W. Keßler did file for a patent protection period, Patentschrift Nr. 62231 Klasse 72 in 1891. So, that is where the mainspring is on the sideplate.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

There should be a FWK monogram on the standing breech.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Same locks for the most part from Kessler catalog germanhuntingguns site, much nicer gun.

The load marked on the side of this gun corresponds to Dr. Hause’s service pressure more so than a proof load of 1900? 30grains of Schultz and 1oz of shot. 2.5 dram load? So I would need to go with low pressure 7/8oz? Or say under 8k psi?

That sounds correct but I will drag Drew to the basement & tell us for certain.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Very odd that this gun has indicators on both top and side? Never have seen that before. Will be interesting to take those plates off, hope their not fake?

Jtplumb,
Maybe the top ones are loaded chamber indicators, whereas the side ones are cocking indicators.
Mike

Yes, I believe Ford to be correct.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The sideplates aren't really fake but the platform is more of psuedo A&D Body Action with the mainspring on the sideplate.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Lifted this from Dietrich's website.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Well, It’s actually a sidelock (not a very complex one) and the pins on top are firing pin retainer screws. What is this prima kruppscher?
Obviously seen Krupp stahl but scher? Also plate on inside says 1? Maybe size of plate or model? Guessing again. What might you fellas think about this one?

Fine Krupp Steel.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

There's a DRGM, Novel Small Addition, which probably covers the mousetrap. See if there is a number associated with the DRGM.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Only number 1 on locks. Here is the initials barrel knitter. KA?

Gun weighs 5.6lbs 29” barrels and looks like original lop was 13” has widows peak so doubt was shortened. Almost child or women’s size gun, super diminutive frame also. Guess my 12 year old hit the jackpot! Barrels are approximately .110 thick at front of chambers and .040 thick at 2/3s down. They will get honed pretty rough but no visible deep pits. I have never feared Krupp fluid steel barrels that measured this reasonable. Only needs 3/4-7/8oz loads at this weight anyway.

Probably >>F.A.<< or less likely >>E.A.<< and >>F.A.<< is quite common forward on the flats on doubles post WWI. If >>F.A.<< then maybe Franz Adamy or if earlier in time, Friedrich Adamy. There really aren't that many A family Büchsenmacher families but if not Adamy, then maybe Albrecht & Anschütz(those few from Suhl). I will ponder a bit on it.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Keßler had @ least 2 DRGMS( Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster) DRGM 217362(217361-Martini Cut Out??) for February 1904 & DRGM 406991 for January 1910. Not sure yet what they covered.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

There was a Gebrauchsmuster/DRGM 240378 to Keßler for a lock & this might well be it?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

This one looks close

Yeah, I think so too for now. D.R.G.M. 94880.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I will tell you what, Suhl mechanic Fr. Luck was a madman when it came to locks. He had several protection numbers regarding locks.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

This one’s main spring looks to have a tit that goes/mounts inside lock plate and spring connects directly to hammer at a steeper angle than the drawing. All else bridle, sear and hammer are same basic design. Beats my old baker locks.

Thanks again for your help. This gun has firing pin retainer screws but no springs on the pins? I know some guns (lc smith for instance) don’t have springs, do you think they may have been removed or were free floating like the Smith?

I think not on the springs on the strikers. I have not seen such, but that doesn't mean much as the strikers could have been replaced & the springs worn out? I believe that might be a question for Ford.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse